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The Proprius... According to Dave

Printed From: Graham Slee at Hifi System Components
Category: And the rest
Forum Name: Amplification
Forum Description: Share your interests or views on amplifiers, preamps, etc
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2936
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2020 at 5:21pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: The Proprius... According to Dave
Posted By: DaveG
Subject: The Proprius... According to Dave
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 8:05pm

I've had the Proprius in my system for a couple of weeks or more now so I'll share some thoughts.

I decided to try them out after living with sheer piece of audio genius that is the Accession for a couple of months. I ran the Accession in standard fixed output mode some of the time and also using variable out and bypassing the pre-stage of my integrated - which incidentally, with upgrades to transformers etc, cost almost double the price of a Proprius pair. Hence my disinclination to try the Proprius until now. Anyway, What was clear to me after a while, notwithstanding the fact that fixed out was a slightly better electrical match theoretically, was that removing the pre circuitry from the loop also removed a slight veil from the sound and also lost a very slight tendency to glare or harshness. It was quite subtle, but it was real. This obviously started the old cogs whirring and I decided that as GSP hadn't failed me thus far, it was time to spring for the last link in the full GSP system. Bookended by my source & speakers everything else is now GSP.

Enter Proprius..ta daaah!!

Popping them in the rack was a tiny little bit of a faff mainly because there's a few extra cables to keep tidy (ish) what with the offboard power supplies and all, plus my TT and EXP/Accession all have the same deal going on. Lots of wires. Having said that I'm a big fan of keeping transformers well out the way of electronics so it's a price worth paying. Obviously the Proprius is small, but it's solidly enough built, it's also very light and the Cusats are quite stiff cables, so it took a little coaxing (there's a pun there somewhere) to make them stay where I wanted them.

OK that's all the bad (kind of) stuff out of the way, next?

First off, lets put the low power (non) issue to bed. My speakers are rated at 88dB for 1 watt. A nominal 8 ohm load, dropping to 3.7ohm minimum. Pretty standard stuff, not super efficient. Room is on the smaller side of average. The Proprius have absolutely no problems driving these speakers to volumes louder than I'd care to listen to, without any hint of stress or strain. Unless you are going to use ultra demanding speakers, and really why would you? then the Proprius is up to the job. Most of my listening is done with the amps at around 9:15 to 9:30. There is plenty left in the tank. I'll return to this later. Anyway, Yorkshire watts are clearly, as someone here suggested, somewhat ballsier than the Soft Southern ones I'm used to Wink.

Where it starts to get really good is when you play some music through them. I've tried to make allowances for the fact that when you listen to some new kit, that it almost certainly has a different presentation to your old gear and that in itself can lead to hyperbole.... the “I'm hearing things I've never heard before” syndrome. Clearly that can't be true unless your old gear was a complete crock.. but after careful consideration and keeping schtum for a few weeks, I have to say it's kind of true with these little chaps.

When my system sounds really good music seems to just flow through the speakers in an effortless way. Sometimes I can pinpoint TT setup as being the cause of it not doing so, sometimes I can offer no reason other than that the moon must be in the wrong phase or something - who knows. Drive me nuts sometimes.

Consistently though, the Proprius just lets music flow, full of energy and life & clarity – it really did take me aback... I mean how? There has been talk here about “less being more” i.e. fewer components in the signal path and I can only conclude that it must be true. I mean it's logical isn't it? These things sound fast, meaning timing is spot on. Treble is sweet and goes higher than my ears do for sure. Bass goes deep and seems well under control, only once or twice in the last couple of weeks have I ever suspected that my previous amp may have had better control of really deep bass. It is only a suspicion though, when I fired up my old amp again to check, it sounded smooth and tonally accurate... very hi fi in fact, but somehow a little stilted, lacking the sheer ebullience of the Proprius. What is certain is The Proprius make better music. I have also come to believe that these being mono-blocks adds enormously to their ability to throw up a convincing soundstage, yet again this is entirely logical to me and this is another area where they completely trounce my previous set up. Imaging, if it's embedded in the recording can be truly holographic (yeh I know...hyperbole). Sounds can come from way outside the plane of my speakers, to both left and right, above and beyond. Extraordinary. Listening to something like Roger Waters - Amused to Death with its Q Sound shenanigans, just leaves me grinning from ear to ear, but also a well recorded natural acoustic is very very convincing. Brilliant!

Quite honestly I was confident these would be good.. I don't think Graham does bad. I really never expected them to be this good.

Crikey!!

PS: I've settled on using them from the fixed outs of my Accession and using the gain on the amp, rather than parking them on full volume and using the Accession to control overall volume. Given the way the Accession exposed the pre-stage in my integrated I didn't expect this to be the case, but to me this sounds just a smidge more open and natural – it's a close call but I'm pretty sure I prefer it this way.



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Dave

Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->



Replies:
Posted By: BAK
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 9:55pm
Dave, you have got the point exactly.Thumbs UpBeer
 Quote "Consistently though, the Proprius just lets music flow, full of energy and life & clarity – it really did take me aback... I mean how? There has been talk here about “less being more” i.e. fewer components in the signal path and I can only conclude that it must be true. I mean it's logical isn't it?"

 The "less-is-more" equates to: less components in the signal path gives more of the original information is delivered through the circuitry... due to more efficiency gained by the fewer components.
 Graham really is an artist working with electronic circuits to gain the extra percent(s) of efficiency. The physics of the design are only going to give formulas to use to get close to a design goal. An artist gets those formulas to work "his way" and thus gets his desired result...
 In this case, BETTER SOUND !StarBeer And just maybe, THE BEST SOUND !Wink


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Bruce
AT-14SA, Pickering XV-15/625, Technics SL-1600MK2, Reflex M, Lautus, Technics SH-8066, Dynaco ST120a, Eminence Beta 8A in custom cabs;; Using Majestic DAC
Enjoy Life Your Way!


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 9:58pm
Good review Dave thanks.

If I am reading this right are the comparisons made with proprius and no preamp?

Rather than just a power vs power amp comparison isn't this a pre/power vs proprius/no preamp comparison? If this is the case could some of the benefit be resulting from the preamp bypass in addition to the power amp benefits?


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 10:49pm
Very good Dave. I think you've summed up the Proprius amps' strengths really well and the direct approach is so rewarding. I had my Genera and Metrum Octave (sold after getting my Majestic) going straight into the loan Proprius amps and was astonished at the music I heard. I could hear the natural ambience/room on some recording and the digital effects on others, but really noticed how solid the bass was. The Proprius helped to distinguish the kick drums and bass lines, and it made toms sound large. I ordered my own amps before the loan was up, knowing they'd sound even better for second borrower.



-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 10:50pm
Richard

Yes you are mostly right. My amp is an integrated that has the option to completely bypass it's pre stage including volume control. So I used the following setups:
1. Accession fixed out into the integrated, using the various inputs & volume on the amp.
2. Accession variable out, direct into the power amp stage of the above.
I had already settled on 2 as being better, prior to trying the Proprius, so yeah the pre-stage is something I identified fairly early as being a slight weakness, which led me to think of trying the Proprius.

So then I tried.
3. Accession variable out with Proprius parked at full volume.
4. Accession fixed out into Proprius.

I preferred 4 to all other combinations. At some point I will have to get a preamp probably if I want to use other sources than my TT. We'll see.

I dunno, since about 1995 my amps have got bigger, more powerful, more complex, more expensive. More hi-fi. Results could be and often were quite impressive, I'd have given up on this hobby years ago if they weren't. Y'know I never really considered I might be on the wrong track but just occasionally I had this doubt.. why am I continually tweaking and fiddling instead of just listening? Why do I hope this cable or that cleaning solution is gonna make the difference. Why am I not getting the thrill I used to? It's always possible I'm just getting old ofc. But it was slightly disconcerting listening through the Proprius for the 1st time, because I instantly thought ..... aahh there 'it' is, welcome back! Since then I've been trying to work out why this should be and can only think that there is merit in the shortest possible signal path idea .. straight wire with gain I think they used to call it?

ofc this is just one amp vs one other amp, listening with my ears & my expectations and prejudices. I'm not gonna say it's the only way.. but right now I'm having fun like I haven't for ages!




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Dave

Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 11:00pm
Compelling.

Not sure whether you are vinyl only but any solutions for CD source?


Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2016 at 11:13pm
I still have my CD player and a separate DAC/ files ripped to my PC. But none of it's plumbed in at the moment. I do need to sort the digital because I have many hundreds of albums that I'm not getting to listen to atm and I'm not (yet) insane or rich enough to go & buy them all again on vinyl. At the moment its not really an even contest, due to the comparitive investment I've made in vinyl replay.


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Dave

Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 7:22am
Maybe loan a Majestic next ? Big smile


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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 8:22am
Great write up Dave!

I concur with your views about imaging and the soundstage extending way beyond the speakers. I believe I wrote on my post about the Proprius "who needs 5.1?" . . .

You can't help thinking that all these massive, megawatt, amps, and those with loads of glowing bottles on top are kind of missing the point and are designed to appeal to their owner's ego rather than just make music. 


-------------
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links


Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:

Maybe loan a Majestic next ? Big smile


Ha! Yes it has crossed my mind Smile


-------------
Dave

Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 8:42pm
Majestic loan, sir?

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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 10:00pm
Dave, another excellent write up & I love your minimalist vinyl approach - anyone in the market for a new power amp should read this. It's sad that low powered valve amps are so popular when the Proprius is such a distortion free & great value alternative.

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Older than I once was, younger than I'll be
.............................
Andrew


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 10:53pm
My Majestic and Proprius union are a truly incredible amplification chain for both my AKG K1000 and my Mark Audio paper cone drivers. The purity of sound is amazing, further improved by the Lautus interconnects.


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2016 at 10:58pm
... Whilst I am sure these will go up there are a pair of Proprius on eBay for £97!!



Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2016 at 12:15am
Hi,
I'm going to second (third? fourth?) the Majestic loan idea. I've abandoned a disc spinner for a MacBook Air running JRiver Media Centre 21, m2Tech HiFace Two USB/coax converter, Lautus digital into a Majestic. My RP8/Reflex M is plugged into the analogue in. Digital and analogue sources living happily together! The switch from one to the other no longer produces vastly different presentations and it's now much more balanced between CD rip, hi-res download and LP. Although, the LP still wins. ;)
Mick.

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Rega RP8/Ortofon 2M Black/Rega Apheta 2 - Reflex M/Elevator EXP - C.E.C. TL5 CD Transport - MacBook Pro/Roon - Majestic DAC - Solo ULDE (Focal Elear) - Proprius - PMC Twenty5.22


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2016 at 8:12pm
Looks like a good buy for a pair of new Proprius went for £670 1/2 price from eBay!


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 7:57am
I was round at Phil's (msphil) with Les (less) a couple of weeks back, listening to PMC Fact 8's driven by a pair of Proprius via Spatia's and links, the source being a Squeezebox via Majestic and Lautus interconnect.

Phil's room is big for reasons known to Phil and his friends, and Fact 8's are floor standers of reasonable average sensitivity. Phil has wrote numerous times about his system being more than loud enough without ever sounding stressed, but the Fact 8's are a new addition, and to the average hi-fi nut might suggest they need lots of power - you know: big speakers will need big watts?

That is a complete falacy dreamed up to satisfy egos. As Phil told me, in the 60's bands would use Vox AC30's (30 watt amps) and easily fill a concert room - you know: bands like the Beatles!

So here we were using two 25 watt monoblocks, far from reaching their clip level and being loud enough that you couldn't talk over the sound without being in each other's faces.

The Fact 8's performed perfectly without any of the midrange harshness I've read of in at least one review - harshness comes from the electronics driving them, and there was none of that here.

I don't normally hear how low the Proprius can drive a speaker because I use LS35A's, but through the Fact 8's the lows (where the music contained it) were definitely sub-50Hz, and close to the 25Hz low frequency extreme of the Fact 8 specification. Not the boom uneducated people seem to get off with these days, but nicely layered like real bass musical instruments play.

As I commented to Phil, I used to get paid to do discos to a packed concert room with nothing more than the equivalent of 4 x Proprius.

Here's a venue:



Into 4 Ohms the Proprius do 45 watts each, so that would be 180 watts. My amps at the time were rated at 200 watts total into 4 Ohms. Enough muscle to have all the people on the dance floor for most of the night if you played them the right songs - which I always did.

So anybody thinking they need more than 25 WPC (into 8 Ohms) or 45 WPC (into 4 Ohms) should obviously not buy the Proprius or immediately sell the ones they've bought. The extra muscle can then be used to annoy their neighbours, hurt their ears and inflate their egos.

EDIT: I must mention that at the above venue in 1977 - Silver Jubilee year - there were my two 2x12 speaker cabinets at either end of the frontage where the car is in the above picture, and I did an outside disco party - and with just the equivalent power of 4 x Proprius, it could be heard from at least a mile away!



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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 9:19am
My Maj/Pro combo has more than enough power to drive two (one is inefficient enough) AKG K1000 simultaneously (and effortlessly) or drive my speaker drivers to much higher volumes than I'd dare to push them (I would damage them). The sound is very full, vitalised and room filling; if I wanted to, with just my two Proprius and connected to big speaker cones in big boxes in my garden moving lots of air, I would be able to generate music loud enough to be heard at least several hundred metres down the road. You don't need a lot of power to go loud and the Proprius uses the power efficiently anyway as it isn't wasting lots of it in heat generation.


Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 10:33am
I read "I was around at Phil's" and noticed the picture - I thought: nice, Phil lives in a pub . . .  Wink

I'd love to hear Fact8s driven by Proprius amps. My little PMCs sound great with them so I can only imagine what the extra extension and detail of the 8s sound like.

Like so much on this forum, the education, and de-bunking of myths never fails to amaze me - the need for "mega" watt amps being a case in point. The Proprii are my lowest power amps ever, and undoubtedly the best sounding . . Thumbs Up


-------------
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links


Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by morris_minor morris_minor wrote:

I read "I was around at Phil's" and noticed the picture - I thought: nice, Phil lives in a pub . . .  Wink


Hehe! I thought exactly the same thing.

So, here they are in situ... the red glow is not them overheating, due to struggling to drive my speakers. The eagle eyed might notice something different.





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Dave

Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->


Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 7:11pm
From the central location of the Accession interconnects, it looks like you were using the variable output when this picture was taken. (.....maybe the red glow tells us something about your central location in London? Shocked)

-------------
Older than I once was, younger than I'll be
.............................
Andrew


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 8:29pm
Black screws?


-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 9:34pm
It was intended to have black screws for contrast but as the original pictures used silver screws because the black screws were on back order, most people give me a hard time for selling them a silver Accession with black screws. I'm therefore thinking of having a poll to settle things once and for all Embarrassed

The question will be do you want black screws to remain or to leave? LOL


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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 10:36pm
No it's not the variable output - I am using fixed. It's not the black screws either. It's  to do with the Proprius.

re: screws, I actually phoned John C to make sure I would get the black screws as all the pictures I'd seen only showed silver. I like them!! I would probably have ordered a black Accession had my EXP also been black - my perfect aesthetic would be black cases and back plates with matt silver anodised facsias in the Accession style but I certainly don't expect every whim of every customer should be catered for. I really like the Accession faceplate - it is a much classier finish - the grain of the brushing runs vertically rather than horizontally on the rest of the range - but is so fine it's barely noticable. But it does mean it reflects light differently.

I am admittedly pretty obsessive about this kind of thing. I can quite happily leave the dishes piled up or my clothes discarded wherever I take them off, but if the Accession & EXP aren't perfectly aligned and square to each other, then I can't sleep. Oh.. and it's not just GSP kit.. I'm not picking on you... it's everything on the rack Embarrassed


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Dave

Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2016 at 10:54pm
So is it that the Proprius volume dials aren't exactly/perfectly in the same position on both?


Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 1:43am
Very, very close Ash. Actually I swapped the volume control knobs for smaller ones - the same size as the Accession one.


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Dave

Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2016 at 6:31am
Originally posted by morris_minor morris_minor wrote:

I read "I was around at Phil's" and noticed the picture - I thought: nice, Phil lives in a pub . . .  Wink


His place is almost the same size as a pub! Wink


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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by morris_minor morris_minor wrote:

I read "I was around at Phil's" and noticed the picture - I thought: nice, Phil lives in a pub . . .  Wink

I'd love to hear Fact8s driven by Proprius amps. My little PMCs sound great with them so I can only imagine what the extra extension and detail of the 8s sound like.

Like so much on this forum, the education, and de-bunking of myths never fails to amaze me - the need for "mega" watt amps being a case in point. The Proprii are my lowest power amps ever, and undoubtedly the best sounding . . Thumbs Up

When I first contemplated getting the Proprius amps I must admit I had my moments of doubt that they would be powerful enough. However, I needn't have worried! My doubts were laughable! On my old Mission floor standing speakers and on the PMC fact 8s in a large room I could literally wake up the street and lift a few roof tiles as well. Not only that but they sound fantastic!


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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 1:25pm
Hi all,
    +1 about most of the above. I love the Proprii in my system. They've travelled, too! They've been in situ in three other systems, encountering floorstanders both easy and difficult and some high end stand mounts. Every time the owners of the systems I visited took a while to get over the drive from such little boxes. They also noticed the most (in my opinion) important element, and that's the music they make. Interestingly, no-one commented much about them in hifi terms. We talked about the musicians and how they played and interacted with other. You know, music.

My feeling is that they give me music released from the feeling that it's being reproduced by mechanic "things". How much of that is being attached to the Reflex M and Majestic? I don't care, because I don't have to deal with that!
Mick.

PS - just finished listening to Dexter Gordin's classic album "Go". I used to type these things while listening. No more!

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Rega RP8/Ortofon 2M Black/Rega Apheta 2 - Reflex M/Elevator EXP - C.E.C. TL5 CD Transport - MacBook Pro/Roon - Majestic DAC - Solo ULDE (Focal Elear) - Proprius - PMC Twenty5.22


Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by Aussie Mick Aussie Mick wrote:


My feeling is that they give me music released from the feeling that it's being reproduced by mechanic "things"


I couldn't agree more Mick Thumbs Up


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Dave

Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 2:59pm
[QUOTE=morris_minor]I read "I was around at Phil's" and noticed the picture - I thought: nice, Phil lives in a pub . . .  Wink

Feels more like a wine bar Bob! TongueWink


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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 3:19pm
Mine's an Aussie Shiraz, then, Phil - thanks! Wink

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Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by morris_minor morris_minor wrote:

Mine's an Aussie Shiraz, then, Phil - thanks! Wink

No problem! I've got a few bottles of Penfold's St Henri, Bin 28 and 407. Some Willows Shiraz and some St Hallett old block and faith Shiraz. Will those do? I used to have a Penfold Grange but happily we've already drunk that one!


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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2016 at 4:15pm
They'll be great, Phil - thanks! Tongue

-------------
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links


Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2016 at 1:50am
PHIL,
   If you're into the Penfolds, make sure you get the Bin 389 - a sweet spot in the range! Also, see if can't find some Shiraz from the Heathcote region in central Victoria. Bendigo, too. My neck if the woods and so many wonderful wines!
Mick.

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Rega RP8/Ortofon 2M Black/Rega Apheta 2 - Reflex M/Elevator EXP - C.E.C. TL5 CD Transport - MacBook Pro/Roon - Majestic DAC - Solo ULDE (Focal Elear) - Proprius - PMC Twenty5.22


Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2016 at 9:58am
Maybe there should be a sub-forum here for the winos . . LOL

-------------
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2016 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by morris_minor morris_minor wrote:

Maybe there should be a sub-forum here for the winos . . LOL


Maybe I should do a range of wino accessories?

Canford Audio ("BBC stores") do!

http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/11-231_CANFORD-RACKWINE-Winerack-rack-mount-3U-black
http://www.canford.co.uk/CANFORD-RACK-FRIDGE

Wink




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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: BAK
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2016 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by morris_minor morris_minor wrote:

Maybe there should be a sub-forum here for the winos . . LOL


Don't leave out the beer and whiskey crowds!LOL

I like scotch , myself.Wink


" Oh , the wonderful world of WINO radio! " George Carlin, 1971.


-------------
Bruce
AT-14SA, Pickering XV-15/625, Technics SL-1600MK2, Reflex M, Lautus, Technics SH-8066, Dynaco ST120a, Eminence Beta 8A in custom cabs;; Using Majestic DAC
Enjoy Life Your Way!


Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2016 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by morris_minor morris_minor wrote:

Maybe there should be a sub-forum here for the winos . . LOL

X-Pensive Winos Wink
 



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Older than I once was, younger than I'll be
.............................
Andrew


Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2016 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by Aussie Mick Aussie Mick wrote:

PHIL,
   If you're into the Penfolds, make sure you get the Bin 389 - a sweet spot in the range! 
Mick.

£40 for that one here in the uk Cry





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Steve

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Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is.


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2016 at 7:04pm
Originally posted by ServerBaboon ServerBaboon wrote:

Originally posted by Aussie Mick Aussie Mick wrote:

PHIL,
   If you're into the Penfolds, make sure you get the Bin 389 - a sweet spot in the range! 
Mick.

£40 for that one here in the uk Cry




Actually Mick, I do have a few bottles of the 389 which I bought a few years ago for about 7 or 8 pounds each, I also have four or five bottles of (my favourite) the bin 707 which I got for about £19 per bottle. A friend of mine is a great Australian wine enthusiast and we used to buy small batches together. I really like some of the Australian Reds but my favourite whites are often from New Zealand. It pays to buy young and keep it! Unfortunately, I don't buy, or drink, a lot of wine these days but it's nice to have one or two good ones put away for a special occasion.


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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 9:14pm
There's probably an extended metaphor in this... like a fine wine, the Proprius entices with its full rounded character and fills the room with a rich mix that your senses experience. It brings to life the endeavours of others who laboured far away to bring their craft to your room. Hmmm, I doubt this will appear as a quote Graham, unless it's in Pseud's Corner!



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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

There's probably an extended metaphor in this... like a fine wine, the Proprius entices with its full rounded character and fills the room with a rich mix that your senses experience. It brings to life the endeavours of others who laboured far away to bring their craft to your room. Hmmm, I doubt this will appear as a quote Graham, unless it's in Pseud's Corner!



I don't think it pretentious at all Big smile


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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2016 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

Originally posted by morris_minor morris_minor wrote:

I read "I was around at Phil's" and noticed the picture - I thought: nice, Phil lives in a pub . . .  Wink

I'd love to hear Fact8s driven by Proprius amps. My little PMCs sound great with them so I can only imagine what the extra extension and detail of the 8s sound like.

Like so much on this forum, the education, and de-bunking of myths never fails to amaze me - the need for "mega" watt amps being a case in point. The Proprii are my lowest power amps ever, and undoubtedly the best sounding . . Thumbs Up


When I first contemplated getting the Proprius amps I must admit I had my moments of doubt that they would be powerful enough. However, I needn't have worried! My doubts were laughable! On my old Mission floor standing speakers and on the PMC fact 8s in a large room I could literally wake up the street and lift a few roof tiles as well. Not only that but they sound fantastic!


I recently enjoyed an afternoon of Phil and Lesley's hospitality in Chesterfield, sharing nostalgia and enjoying some very good music through Phil's glorious hi-fi. I can confirm the large room is filled by the Fact 8's with the Majestic at 9 o'clock (as if anyone doubted this) and all the music I heard was wonderfully reproduced by two slim tower speakers and a small pile of net silver boxes. Probably the best hi-fi I've heard and it brought the music to life. Well done to PMC and GSP/HFSC and thanks again to Phil for our time together with the music.

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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2016 at 7:39pm
Nice! There can't be many better ways to spend an evening than listening to good music, reproduced well, and in good company.

My proprius continue to delight me. I've written more here about these than the Accession for instance. I think this because I knew already that Graham could design world class phono stages, so it was no surprise that it turned out to be a stunner. With the Proprius, it wasn't so much that I doubted they'd be good, in fact I expected good, I wasn't quite prepared for just how good and how, now that they are fully burnt in, they show a clean pair of heels to my £2.5k, 250w amp in pretty much every way that matters - especially that most crucial of factors - ENJOYMENT!

It's all good news guys - size doesn't matter! It really is what u do with it that counts

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Dave

Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2016 at 6:37pm

[/QUOTE]

I recently enjoyed an afternoon of Phil and Lesley's hospitality in Chesterfield, sharing nostalgia and enjoying some very good music through Phil's glorious hi-fi. I can confirm the large room is filled by the Fact 8's with the Majestic at 9 o'clock (as if anyone doubted this) and all the music I heard was wonderfully reproduced by two slim tower speakers and a small pile of net silver boxes. Probably the best hi-fi I've heard and it brought the music to life. Well done to PMC and GSP/HFSC and thanks again to Phil for our time together with the music.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Jon! It was a real pleasure! There's nothing better than sharing good music with like-minded people!


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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2016 at 7:03pm
It's a pity we don't have an edit button that we can use after the message has been posted. I did mean to say that although a lot of people praise my PMC Fact 8 speakers (which are great!) In my opinion a hi-fi setup is only as good as its weakest link. Good speakers can only reproduce what is fed into to them. In my case this is (apart from the Squeezebox Touch and the speakers) a complete Graham Slee system. This includes a Majestic, a pair of Proprius amps which are all connected with GSP interconnects and cables. If there is any doubt in your mind those little 25 W beauties can blow the roof off whilst at the same time delivering real quality sound! I don't know how Graham does it but I think he produces some of the best hi-fi you can get! 

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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2016 at 7:59pm
I tend to agree with Phil on this. There is the argument that by over engineering at the front end of the system including cables, clean mains, amps etc the outcome through more modest speakers can produce a result far better than may be reasonably expected. This view dates back to many hifi shows and demos back in the late 70s and early 80s.

There have been a few exceptions to this rule but not many from my experience.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2016 at 9:44pm
It's good to have a systematic approach but I suspect there's as much art as science in fine tuning the setup to get the sound you want.



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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2016 at 8:11am
Scientific art.

A sound suggestive of tubes without the typical tube distortion.

This only comes from extending frequency response open-loop, such that when the loop is closed (negative feedback is applied) the full 180 degree negative feedback extends further up the frequency range.

The vast majority of power amplifiers are designed to efficiently use all the voltage supply such that the signal swings all the way to the positive and negative rails, and this dictates one of two topologies.

Neither are used in the Proprius, and therefore some power supply volts are inevitably wasted to allow the use of a voltage amplifier section which traditionally has a full frequency response.

Because this voltage is wasted it cannot be converted into power which means lower efficiency, and hence 25 watts instead of the 35 watts otherwise available (ref 8 ohms).


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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2016 at 8:40pm
I like the term Graham but must admit I meant the bit after your hard work and engineering brilliance where we move the boxes around our listening rooms.

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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2016 at 10:20pm
Sorry, I told you I needed some new specs. Wink


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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...



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