No surprise they sound good though . . . and as you say better things to come as well. 

 

I need to learn to drive and when I do, I'm going to want excellent car audio... 

My experience is that many decent amps, including Quad's own, don't come close to revealing the true potential of the ESLs. Sure they will sound just fine, a revelation even, but when driven properly they play on an entirely different - holographic & spooky - level.

It's good to read that the Proprius handles the task so well, and this speaks volumes about how well designed it clearly is.

There's gotta be a simpler solution than four car batteries... (five if you count the non-audio one).

A pair of Proprius needs the 48V and no more than a couple of amps of current available. Graham could easily make something with a small step-up 1:4 transformer and a voltage regulator probably. (although voltage step up would lower the available current)

(well the charge will oscillate, not pulse, if the direction of flow is alternated)

(diodes for rectification or for back EMF?)

Being a loaner programme pair it's difficult to know what sort of condition they are in and how much they will improve in the next week or so.  I simply plugged them in and left them for 24 hours before commencing listening.

Sources are vinyl mm and CD.  I have two pairs of floor standing speakers, a valve friendly pair which I use for serious listening and a pair of more power hungry missions for home office use.

I listen to a lot of live music so hifi for me is a substitute for the real thing. Sound staging, details and a good flat tonal balance with good bass control and extended treble are all important to me.  However, dynamics are the most important.  If your music tastes are electronica then dynamics won't be important to you, but if strings, cymbals and orchestral or big band dynamics are important to you, then dynamics are a must.

Now you know what my yardstick looks like here are my measurements...

With the valve friendly speaker load, the proprius doesn't sound like hifi in a good way.  They remind me of a stereo 20 with an even handedness which isn't immediately impressive, but then deeply so.  They have that elusive equanimity which should be there in hifi but so rarely is.  Whatever you play sounds like it ought to sound and that's a whole lot rarer than it should be!

One reason for the lack of immediate impressiveness is the lack of overblown bass or a forward midband.  If your listening is mainly 'popular' both those 'faults' can be an advantage provided they are well controlled. Voices project out of the mix more strongly, bass drives a track better.  Unfortunately, orchestras just sound wrong as does small group jazz.  So, if realism is what you are after the proprius is great, but that may not be what you really want.

On CD the proprius managed to sound less digital in a good way than many transistor amps.

On well recorded pop (think Steely Dan or ABC) they continue the ruthless exposure of the construction of the track in sometimes unflattering ways. Sometimes less is more.

When grunt is required, be that of the Led Zep or Mahler variety, the proprius has both the welly and the speed to be convincing.

Having said all that, swapping to the mission speakers which are a more difficult load, the proprius seemed slightly off the pace.  They just didn't seem to have the power to be quite as convincing as with the more efficient speakers.  That may be down to a number of factors including the age and condition of the loan amps.  That said, they were such a good match for the efficient speakers that they had 'set a very high bar.'

In summary then, very impressed so far, but system matching and your own tastes will be an issue (as with any amp.) That's why the loaner scheme is such a fine thing.

I can help but to add my 4 year experience with Proprius and YES you write exactly what I could not articulate .......Focal ARIA 936 @92 db 110cms tall with Two tune port and One slot opening underneath control bass and dedicated Mid band driver allows the musical flow AND Yes very ' balance' and I too look for '' live good with 20 bit French recording or French ballads and Jazz and nothing else compares after my 66 years listening to live or pipe music .....And I shall not replace the 300B Triode valves this time to assist Thorens and Genera ......Proprius does the job wonderfully and I spent 'Lock down'' knotting(25 Cms speaker cable with dedicated 1mmBass/.5mm mid/.25mm strand silver cable  to hook from Proprus to Aria and silver cable even the 25cms length contribute to improve dynamics But the listening room acoustics also needs some work....But yes .....Proprius is for keep NOW that I cannot attend Jazz clubs or see the Edith Piat or Sarah Vaughn of today, Proprius provide  'emotion content' of the lyrics to my satisfaction. 

I have a question for Proprius users.

I'm thinking about a minimalist setup with 2 sources and I'm happy to unplug and plug in cables to switch sources if need be.

Is there a problem doing so without powering the amps down?

Does anyone have a simple, cheap and slightly more elegant solution that is a little more wife friendly, and doesn't degrade the sound rather than using a passive or powered preamp?

I don't have the budget for a majestic but would consider a good cheap passive preamp if such a thing exists.  Recommendations?

Thorens 160B and 350 sits on VERY NEATLY to IKEA coffee table as if made to order with exact room for Proprius and Power supply, a diy cheap but value for money.

Yes, Majesty caused my dilemma in 2015. Good but needs to be proportionate to finance expend.  After many I opted for the AUDIOLAB Mplus. Small enough to be portable BUT it has an electronic pre AMP as majesty. I opted to a 10ohm pot @£7 and and an aluminium ex MAPLIN at £5. But E -Bay has many already drilled for Output and Input and even a Ground post. Allow me to attenuate the 2.8 to 3 Volts of the DAC output even Passive Pre amp pot creates problem .....so as advised by  a G A P use 10ohm pot and very short 4 inch cable. Do not expect much but the improvement is there and very noticeable to some CDs and more evident to others.

Now, I am investing in a 10 ohm  double isolating transformers and they say or write it will add more Analogue tone of digital tone CD's and there is sufficient validating report of research to convince ....

Wife friendly ...well play some Perry Como or Jim Reeves or Abba and they soon accept the DAC as a Flower pot.

   

Question: is the power supply for the Proprius ‘balanced’.?

I don’t own one but it is my next power amp.

I am looking at a ‘audio balanced power supply’ for around £250 retail, and wondering what this might do in the context of my whole system, which includes Accession MM with psu1.

Thank you,

Daniel

Each Proprius uses a dedicated SMPS power supply with a normal live, neutral and earth mains input. Unless you suffer particular mains borne interference I would not waste money on what you describe as an audio balanced power supply. I assume it is a centre tappped earth transformer. ie 230V input, 115-0-115 V output with 0 connected to earth. This might create more problems than it solves.

Just my opinion.

Happy Listening

Ian

I’m aware this has been probably covered elsewhere, and I’ll puzzle on I expect at least until the Proprius is bagged!

thanks again

The UK domestic mains is Live, Neutral and Earth within a property. Before it enters the property it is just Live and Neutral. Before the meter the Neutral is bonded to "protective Earth" including water and gas pipes at the nearest entry point to the building - tied Neutral system (TN-S).

The voltage from Live to Neutral is always the nominal voltage. You can say that is 230V (although it won't be). The voltage from Neutral to Earth will be the voltage rise due to any and all loads connected to the domestic supply, and so the voltage from Live to Earth will be equal or greater than Live to Neutral.

Now, don't ask me why, there are far more qualified people who are members here who can explain why.

Nevertheless, Neutral and Live are still "floating" to a class-2 double insulated product. In an earthed (class-1) product, the Neutral is "closer" in voltage terms to Earth, but both Neutral and Live are isolated by the product's transformer, and the open circuit transformer secondary is completely floating.

A bridge rectifier used to rectify the waveform, connects one side or the other side of the floating secondary to positive or negative rail in equal turn. So which is connected to Earth? Both are, and both aren't.

In a full wave rectifier, the transformer is centre tapped, which goes to the product's earth, but the centre tap is half way between the two floating ends, so is balanced.

In a switched mode power supply it's anybodies guess, but I don't think one side will have greater affinity to Neutral or Live.

Then again, the products you list are all class-2, so "don't care."

However, there are owners who swear blind that such devices "improve" things, but do they? Is it simply a difference? The difference can be due to numerous things. If the device is a regenerator, perhaps its output voltage differs to the users mains voltage. That will make a difference to some products, as I've recently been trying to explain on my 1970s Design Indulgence blog.

Because the voltage is higher, and there are fewer appliances placing offsets on the mains (automatic washing machines being the worst culprit - not forgetting the switching regulator noises from solar panels).

Either you need a regenerator, or products that are designed to ignore such fluctuations.

It don't surprise me you find night time listening better so do I. I listen more with headphones at night or at lower volume but there is a definite difference.

D