Tracking force
Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Turntable Audio
Forum Name: DJ and Professional Turntable User
Forum Description: Technical Q&A, hints and tips
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2662
Printed Date: 18 Apr 2024 at 3:21pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Tracking force
Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Subject: Tracking force
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2015 at 9:07pm
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Hi Hope this is in the correct place, not being a DJ or Pro Turntable user. When you set the tracking force and bias on an arm which has a lever to raise or lower said arm, should you set it with the lever in the raised position or the lowered. or wont it make any difference in which position the lever is in. Cheers Dave
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Replies:
Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2015 at 9:29pm
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Ideally VTF should be set with a balance or scales, so cueing arm down. I have one of these  one of these  and one of these, which gets used most of the time.  |
Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2015 at 9:39pm
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To accurately gauge bias I use a test record and play the torture tracks while listening over headphones. If your bias is incorrectly set you will definitely hear it using headphones. There is readily apparent distortion. It's easy to get distracted by other things in the room if you try to adjust this listening to your speakers. There's also an alignment protractor with the record.  |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2015 at 10:12pm
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Agree about using scales rather than 'hover 1mm above record and set zero on weight dial.' But a tip I'd offer from early experiences is make sure the headshell/cartridge is level seen from the side when measuring VTF, i.e. same as playing a record. Any of the good scales Chris suggests will be thicker than a standard LP so take the felt matt off (if applicable) and put the scales on the platter. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2015 at 1:33pm
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Thanks Chris and Jon Lever down is what I thought, they don't mention it in a utube vid I watched. I have a set of scales given away by HIFI REVIEW in 1987 they appear to be ok, but maybe I should by something digital. Cheers Dave |
Posted By: miT
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2015 at 4:39pm
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I have nothing useful to add as I'm not hardcore enough to have a TT but this title keeps making me think of a parody version of Parcel Farce, but where they can actually tell where they lost your parcel... It's Friday, sorry. 
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2015 at 9:56pm
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People with hi-fi turntables will already know that getting the down force right ensures the cartridge produces the best sound and above all the stylus is at the correct angle in the record groove. It is straight forward with easily available tools at various prices as Chris has already explained. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: miT
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2015 at 11:04pm
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Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 12:42pm
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Jon Do you set your VTF with the balance weight using the scales. Cheers Dave
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Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 12:46pm
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Chris Are the digital scales one they use for weighing coins. Cheers Dave
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Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 1:00pm
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In reply to both questions... Set your VTF using the scales - it will be a touch more accurate than the marking on the tonearm counterweight. I got my scales from Amazon - this looks to be the same as mine http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Long-Playing-Turntable-Tonearm-Cartridge/dp/B00H7WUN10/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442577302&sr=8-1&keywords=stylus+gauge - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Long-Playing-Turntable-Tonearm-Cartridge/dp/B00H7WUN10/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442577302&sr=8-1&keywords=stylus+gauge I don't think the scales are the same as those used for weighing coins. |
Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 2:42pm
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Thanks Chris But you still use the tracking force control on the arm to dial in the weight needed, not the balance weight. It`s just that i read some where that you can leave the tracking force control on zero and dial in the weight needed with the balance weight. I am having a hard time balancing the arm at the moment, as the balance weight is so tight. Will check amazon for the scales. Thanks Dave
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Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 3:04pm
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I've never had an arm with a VTF dial on it. They've all been move the counterweight affairs. Hang on a minute - is this what you mean?  Don't trust them - the scales will be more accurate. |
Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 8:37pm
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Hi Chris On the arm in the picture, the tracking weight is set by the dial on the back of the arm, the flat dial is the anti skating. You set the tracking force on The Planar 2 (RB250) that i have with the counter balance weight, and this a doddle to set up, the tracking force knob on the rp3 is on the side of the arm. The balance weight on the rp3 is as stiff as hell, and i can not get the arm to float properly. I have watched two vids on utube one by what hifi, and both balance weights appear to move a lot easier. At least one reviewer on the net stated it took him 2 hours to set up, the balance weight was that stiff, my be some balance weights are stiffer than others, and you have to be careful as the arm moves a lot. The rp3 set up. cock up, is all over the web. Sorry for the long ramble. Cheers Dave |
Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 10:32pm
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I've heard it recommended to set the RB300 VTF control so that it's disabled (it uses a spring, and it's not particularly accurate), and to set VTF as per the RB250. |
Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2015 at 4:35am
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Hi Chris I have read this as well, you set the tracking weight knob to 3.5, which tightens the spring so it can not move and effect the sound, some people remove it altogether. Then you set the tracking weight using the balance wheel, i might give it a try , but with the balance weight being so tight it might not work. Its looking like I will have to get onto the dealer and see if they will set it up, but as I have to use a crutch to walk I will have to get some body to carry the deck to the car. Mind you it could be worse. Cheers Dave |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2015 at 7:55am
Yes. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
FAT2BIKER wrote:Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2015 at 8:08am
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Just to confirm Chris and Dave's point I have an RB301 arm and there is a spring in the tracking weight mechanism. The idea is to set it on zero then adjust the counterweight so the arm 'floats' with the stylus not quite touching the record surface. After that the VTF would be set using the knob up to a maximum of 3.5g. Some other tone arms use a scale on the counterweight for the same convenience feature. I have read that the Rega tracking weight spring affects the sound but tap testing of 3.5g and 2g (example I chose) indicated little or no difference in sound to me. However I found scales were more accurate than the scale on the tracking force knob which is the main reason I maxed t out and then used scales to measure the VTF, adjusting this with the counterweight position. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2015 at 2:06pm
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Will get some digital scales Tuesday or Wednesday. So will try setting the knob to 3.5, and use the balance weight to set the VTF. The scales appear the same as Chris`s. Cheers Dave |
Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2015 at 8:59pm
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Received the scales today. Turned the knob to 3.5 and set the VTF with balance weight, sounded dull, not my cup of tea. It still would not play right, so had another go the normal way. Balanced the arm better this time, set the VTF using the scales, then set the bias to 1.75. Still not right, I used different bias settings still no joy, so going back to the dealer. Cheers Dave |
Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2015 at 9:25pm
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On the RB303 arm I had tried turning the dial to max 3.5 and setting VTF with the digital scales, then at zero but I could not detect any difference when playing my regular 'setup' albums. I decided to turn the dial to the 1.5 marker and used the digital scale to move the counterweight until the scale indicated 1.5gms - as Rega intended. This leaves the spring under slight tension which I consider to be better than at the 3.5 setting where the spring will be 'loose', or zero where it will be under maximum tension. I also want to ensure the counterweight is relatively close to the pivot point on the arm, not too far back on the stub. When setting tracking force, I remove the platter and have a wooden block below the digital scale that brings the surface level with a typical LP - this is placed at the midpoint between the spindle and the outer edge of the platter so VTF is correct on the arc where music will be played. (I also have the simple Ortofon beam type balance but on comparing with the calibrated digital scale, this is quite inaccurate, as were the markings on the Rega arm when using their recommended VTF method). The Audiomods arm is much easier to set by comparison - the counterweight has multiple steel, lead and copper shim options with an additional small fine adjustment weight ------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2015 at 9:31pm
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Have set the bias to two, appears to be working. I think I might need the records cleaning, though the carbon cartridge fitted to the planar 2 just sails through them no bother. Cheers Dave |
Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2015 at 7:14am
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Thanks Andrew I hope to go to the dealer today and see if they can set it up. Cheers Dave |
Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2015 at 4:08pm
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Well managed to get to the dealer this morning. He set the arm balance, VTF, then the bias, still distorted . Thinks the deck is not working correctly, phone`s rega. Comes back and fits a new cartridge, just the same, changes the deck. So relieved, forgot to ask him to set it up, managed it my self, though not quite 1mm from record but near, will use the scales later. Andrew will try the block of wood. Checked the height between plinth and top of record inch and a quarter, slightly higher to the scales platform even with the mat removed. Cheers  Dave |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2015 at 4:44pm
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Dave, Glad to see you got it all sorted out. Seems like you have a good dealer there. ------------- Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it. |
Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2015 at 1:31pm
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Hi Ian Never been there before, they just happened to be the nearest rega dealer to where I live. But as you say they turned out to be a good dealer. If any body lives in the chester area give them a try, you might be able to get a good deal as they are moving in the near future to a new shop and don't wont to pack every thing. Cheers Dave |
Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2015 at 2:06pm
(maybe Adventures in Hi-Fi??) ------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: FAT2BIKER
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2015 at 2:19pm
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Adventures. Cheers Dave |
Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2015 at 2:26pm
------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 7:14am
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I’m in a better mood now & have a bit of time so I’ve ordered a set of digital tracking weight scales. I have an unused HiFi News test record too so this weekend I’ll see if I can’t get to the bottom of my clipping issues. There’s always the sledge hammer option if things don’t go well. More than one computer has ended in smitherines on the patio. I can only be pushed so far!! ------------- Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness?? I think so.... |
Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2018 at 10:57am
Oh the temptation! Windoze computers are the most annoying wind-ups ever .  ------------- Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2018 at 9:17pm
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Indeed. You can't kill them, can't live without them! That's great Tim. I've found having digital scales and a good test record eliminate a lot of guess work when setting up a turntable. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 8:42am
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Test scales were interesting. Actual tracking weight was 1.75g say the scales. I’d set it on the arm at a touch over 1.5g
Not sure the test record is much use without a reference deck to compare against. What are the pink noise tones supposed to sound like??? ------------- Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness?? I think so.... |
Posted By: Old skool
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 8:44am
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Have to say it’s all sounding fantastic.
Best I’ve ever done. Been a lot of front room dancing! Can’t be far off optimal TT set up ------------- Is the pursuit High Fidelity a sign of mental illness?? I think so.... |
Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 9:00am
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it makes such a difference when it’s right! Bravo! Mick. ------------- Rega RP8 - Apheta 2 - Accession MC Enigma PS -Solo ULDE (Focal Utopia) - PS Audio M700 - Fical Kanta No2 |
Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 9:03am
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What happens when you reduce the tracking to within Ortofon's recommended range, according to the digital scales? I haven't used the built in stuff on tonearms for years. I have a couple of stylus balances (cheap and cheerful Ortofon, and a Shure SFG-2), and now a digital readout job from Ebay, and I'd trust what any one of them tells me before I'd trust the calibration marks on a tonearm. The only tonearm manufacturer's markings I'd trust are the one's on SME arms - the old man was a stickler for things actually working as defined. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2018 at 9:45pm
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Excellent advice Chris. FWIW I rewired a 3009 S2 improved recently and was impressed to find one full turn in either direction was + or - 0.5g. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |