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Thanks for the Proprii loan

Printed From: Graham Slee at Hifi System Components
Category: And the rest
Forum Name: Amplification
Forum Description: Share your interests or views on amplifiers, preamps, etc
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2634
Printed Date: 22 Oct 2019 at 11:27pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Thanks for the Proprii loan
Posted By: Ernie
Subject: Thanks for the Proprii loan
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2015 at 9:47pm
Hi All at GSP,
Just wanted to say a big thanks for the loan of the Proprius amps. Having owned an ERA V for a couple of years I knew I was going to enjoy them. I was right I absolutely love em. Straight out of the box plugged directly into the phono stage my circa 1973 lp12 sounded fantastic. Indeed plugged straight into my Sonos Connect the sound was just beguiling. I was sat down all day Saturday playing vinyl and Spotify.

Then the problem began. I wanted to see what it sounded like with my Naim 3.5 CD player and because of the connections had to go via a shunt passive preamp I've been using. Took the shine right off so got the soldering iron out and by passed the stepped attenuator. That was much better but still I was preferring the direct connected Sonos.

Next I tried connecting a DAC Magic and tried the Sonos optical out. The sound lifted again the vocals where fantastic.

While I was messing around I thought I'd try plugging in an Apple TV into the DAC and stream Spotify and 6 Music from an iPad. I'm really not a jazz fan but I was looking for differing material to play and so played Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. A cliche probably but highly enjoyable never the less. Certainly made a stark change from Slaughter and the Dogs anyway.

Led me to thinking I'd be better off with a better DAC than plugging all of my line level equipment into a passive.

So today I went a bit mental and thanks to the joy of 0% finance I've bought not only the Propripus amps but a Majestic DAC too. I haven't even heard one! Think I need to lie down and wait for the men in white coats!

So as a question do I connect the Majestic to the Proprii will a balanced connection and use a short connection to the speakers or use short Lautus and long speaker cables? To be honest I could just use 3m unbalanced Lautus and still use some short connections to the speakers. So balanced or unbalanced?

Feeling a bit light headed now!


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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.



Replies:
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2015 at 10:13pm
I love your signature! Wink

I've had a mixed up day too, so it might take me a while to come up with a sensible take on some good connection ideas.

Thanks for the really nice review Big smile


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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2015 at 10:37pm
Ernie, I enjoyed reading your experience of the Proprii and the inevitable conclusion. Though you haven't heard the Majestic, I have no doubt that you'll be more than pleased with it's sound and versatility.
As for the connections, my preference is for long balanced interconnects and short speaker cables, allowing the amps to be close coupled to the speakers.


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Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.


Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2015 at 10:02am
Thanks Ian,
Which balanced cables are you using? I only seem to be able to find DJ stock equipment at about £5 a lead (though they're probably absolutely fine). Looking online "hifi" balanced cables range from £300 to £1.5K. Eye watering but from what I see no jack connections.

Also what cable have you use between the amp and speaker?

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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2015 at 10:46am
Hi Ernie,
My cables and amps are all DIY.
The balanced interconnects use Van Damme Starquad tour grade cable with Neutrik XLR plugs and sockets, one is 6m long the other 10m. I don't know how well these compare to GSP cables, I dare not try as I can foresee a purchase being inevitable!!
Speaker cable is Spatia single core in both speaker internal wiring and between amps and speaker.
My amps compare quite well to the Proprius, one day when funds allow, a pair of Proprius will take their place.


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Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.


Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2015 at 12:37pm
Thanks Ian, I'm not adverse to getting the soldering iron out but there's always the nag that it could be better. Bit like making tea. Truly great cups of tea are generally made for you by someone else if you follow me.

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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2015 at 12:38pm
Ernie, I'm using a Sonos as my main source into a Majestic DAC via coax. (CuSat50 cable). My Proprius amps are connected to the Majestic via Lautus TRS-XLR cables and speakers to the amps via Spatia with Spatia links. I've always found the coax. digital output on the Sonos to sound better than optical.

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Solo ULDE, CuSat50, Spatia Links


Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2015 at 12:45pm
My mistake, just checked the plugs are of course TRS for the Majestic and XLR for the amps.



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Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2015 at 8:50pm
Very nice - you'll be a happy man Chris. You're not alone, I had ordered my own pair of Proprius amps before the loan set went to the second person in the queue. The Majestic DAC and preamp is as wonderful and improved on various DAC's I had tried including the Metrum Octave.

Cable-wise I have short cables all my GSP hi-fi boxes on one shelf with the PSU's on the floor. I use a 0.6m Lautus R-3 unbalanced cable from GSP which is better than the DIY pair I carefully made. I have also tried and would recommend the GSP balanced TRS to XLR cable that Ian (BinB) mentioned, there's a lot to be said for his amp next to speaker approach IMO. There is a loan pair of the balanced cables if you would like to try them?



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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2015 at 12:07pm
Certainly would Jon,
I'll PM you when my gear arrives. I going to try some balanced connections tonight. The DacMagic has a balanced output. See if I can hear any difference.



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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2015 at 9:06pm
Hi Gary,
How do you find the Sonos compared to other digital devices? Do all digital feeds to the Majestic sound the same? Suppose what I'm asking is can you tell the difference between digital sources?

I only ask because I will need a new cd player (seen a little P******t one) as the one I have has no digital out (bloody Naim and their sound quality ideas). Are all ones and zeros the same despite the source?

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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 10:01am
Another +1 for GSP's TRS to XLR balanced (Libran).  Thumbs Up

I use a pair between Majestic and active speakers.


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Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links


Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 11:29am
Erin, that's one of those questions were the answers has to contain the phrase "in my opinion".
I've used a few devices similar to the Sonos they have included Slim Devices Squeezebox and Duet, Sonos Connect in standard form and modified form (external power supply, re-clock) Cyrus streamer, Naim streamer, Raspbery Pi, and now another Sonos but with an external power supply. The Sonos always wins on it's ease of use and software. I'd rate the Sonos with external power supply on a level with the Cyrus streamer for sound quality. I'd also rate the standard Sonos, Squeezebox, Duet and Raspbery Pi as equal for sound quality and possibly all equal if they had external good power supplies. Regarding the heavily modded Sonos I had the sound quality was always DAC dependant. There were big differences between standard and modded Sonos with a MF DAC and no difference with a Rega DAC the Rega DAC sounded better but is absolutely blown away by a Majestic.


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Solo ULDE, CuSat50, Spatia Links


Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2015 at 2:42pm
Hi Ernie,
FWIW many years back, changing from the SPDIF o/p of a cheap Marantz player to a
Meridian 200 transport, feeding a 203 DAC made a big improvement to SQ.
Could the differences be down to the 'quality' of the ones & noughts from the transport -
rise time, noise etc?
Perhaps the quality of the SPDIF receiver chip in the DAC is important.
My Majestic sounds equally good fed either USB from a laptop or SPDIF from an MF M1 transport.



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Elevator, Accession, Majestic, Reflex M, Solo ULDE, CuSat & Lautus.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2015 at 8:10am
Hi Ernie, I use a Squeezebox Touch with a replacement power supply to feed my Majestic via a 3m Lautus cable. The cable and power supply both improved the sound when I changed to them.


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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

Hi Ernie, I use a Squeezebox Touch with a replacement power supply to feed my Majestic via a 3m Lautus cable. The cable and power supply both improved the sound when I changed to them.

Hi Jon,
I would welcome any information/suggestions about which power supply would be best with my squeezebox touch. My PS is the only weak point in my all GSP system. I'm still using the one originally supplied with the squeezebox.


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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 10:06pm
I can confirm it is worth upgrading the Touch's supplied 5 volt power supply Phil. Sorry I can't make a supplier recommendation from experience as as I built my own using a Maplin SMPS feeding into a box I made with loads of capacitors and a low noise regulator bolted to the box as heatsink.

I would probably have bought something like this otherwise:

http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/power-supplies/346-mains-cables-r-us-dc-power-supply.html - Click here for MCRU £225

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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2015 at 11:56pm
I use one of these for my pre-amp, same supply, but running at 20V - http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/power-supply-kits-full-power-supply/alimentation-stabilisee-lineaire-5v-5a-squeezebox-touch-black-v3-p-8481.html - Here

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Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2015 at 12:09am
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

I would probably have bought something like this otherwise:

http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/power-supplies/346-mains-cables-r-us-dc-power-supply.html - Click here for MCRU £225


I have one of these, and it works extremely well.
The chap who designed and builds these is a good friend.



Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2015 at 12:26pm
Gary,
Have you bothered with any mods to the Sonos? I was looking on the web at some of the very expensive mods that are available from off board linear PSU's to uprated digital out conversions.

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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2015 at 6:23pm
Ernie,
I've had a few Sonos ZP90 / Connects. I have had them modified with varying results. Back in January 2012 I had a ZP90 modified by a company in Doncaster, it consisted of a Level 2 upgrade consisting of an external linear power supply a re-clock and a few other bits. It did sound better when used with a older MF DAC that I had at the time, however later I changed to a Rega DAC and as an experiment I tried it with my brothers standard Sonos to find no difference. My conclusion at the time was that modern DACs that re-clock the digital signal like the Rega just need a competent source. Due to a heat problem (ran very warm, to warm to touch comfortably) I started to question the build quality of the PSU and it's capacitor durability and sold the modified Sonos on.
My current Sonos also has an external linear PSU this time made by a company in Leeds. This time however when compared to my brothers standard Sonos also using a Rega DAC and my Majestic DAC there is a noticeable difference, it's not immediately noticeable but there seams to be more space to the performance and instrument decay detail is increased. It also shows the big gap between a Rega DAC and Majestic.

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Solo ULDE, CuSat50, Spatia Links


Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2015 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by Gary Gary wrote:

Ernie,
I've had a few Sonos ZP90 / Connects. I have had them modified with varying results. Back in January 2012 I had a ZP90 modified by a company in Doncaster, it consisted of a Level 2 upgrade consisting of an external linear power supply a re-clock and a few other bits. It did sound better when used with a older MF DAC that I had at the time, however later I changed to a Rega DAC and as an experiment I tried it with my brothers standard Sonos to find no difference. My conclusion at the time was that modern DACs that re-clock the digital signal like the Rega just need a competent source. Due to a heat problem (ran very warm, to warm to touch comfortably) I started to question the build quality of the PSU and it's capacitor durability and sold the modified Sonos on.
My current Sonos also has an external linear PSU this time made by a company in Leeds. This time however when compared to my brothers standard Sonos also using a Rega DAC and my Majestic DAC there is a noticeable difference, it's not immediately noticeable but there seams to be more space to the performance and instrument decay detail is increased. It also shows the big gap between a Rega DAC and Majestic.


Hi Gary,
Interesting. It'll have to wait for now though. Had to send the loan amps back to Jon today. Plugged my old kit in last night and tried it out. Beth Gibbons now sounds like she's sitting in the corner of the room with a blanket over her head.

Just hope my new stuff turns up soon. Apparently people at GSP are on holiday! How dare they!

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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2015 at 9:14pm
Don't worry - business as usual from tomorrow Embarrassed


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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2015 at 9:55am
Thanks Graham,
Excited now!

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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by Chris Firth Chris Firth wrote:

Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

I would probably have bought something like this otherwise:

http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/power-supplies/346-mains-cables-r-us-dc-power-supply.html - Click here for MCRU £225


I have one of these, and it works extremely well.
The chap who designed and builds these is a good friend.


I'm just wondering if you, or anyone else, can tell me what I can expect from these power supplies on my SqueezeboxTouch. Do they come with a sale or return guarantee? I would also welcome any suggestions about any other power supplies that people may have tried and can recommend.


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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 7:55pm
My Touch sounds more substantial with tighter bass and I can hear more of the ambience on some recordings. I replaced the original PSU with my DIY one some time after installing the EDO and Touch Toolkit software and thought the level of improvement was comparable.

Can anyone else share their experiences to help Phil with this, please?


-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by msphil msphil wrote:

I'm just wondering if you, or anyone else, can tell me what I can expect from these power supplies on my SqueezeboxTouch. Do they come with a sale or return guarantee? I would also welcome any suggestions about any other power supplies that people may have tried and can recommend.


The Squeezebox Touch sounds passable with the stock supply, but with a decent linear PSU it becomes a very capable music player.
And that's using the analogue outputs.

I use a Squeezebox Touch as a transport into A N Other DAC, and I can hear the differences between using the stock PSU and the linear PSU - the linear wins out every time.

I don't really do all the flowery audiophile descriptive stuff, but a decent linear PSU makes the sound more substantial.

I also use the linear PSU to power my EMU0404 USB  recording interface, and the noise floor of the recordings I make becomes audibly lower.
The amount of low level detailing has increased, and the dynamic range of the recordings is increased.

Some say it's all just 0s and 1s.
I disagree.

With regard to trying stuff out I believe that distance selling regulations are very much in force.


Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 9:27pm
The Squeezebox Touch in my main system uses a Mark Grant Squeezebox Touch Linear Power Supply + the Advanced Digital Output app =>Lautaus coax digital =>Majestic DAC. Music quality with FLAC files into the same DAC sounds slightly superior to the CD transport and source material is almost indistinguishable from vinyl where I own the same recordings.

It is quite a long time since I added this to my system and it was after purchasing the Majestic but I do recall being very happy with the improvements it brought. Combined with the Majestic, music has none of the sharp edged harshness often associated with a digital source and I have no desire to upgrade any further.

(The PSU is housed in a substantial non-metallic box, in a similar fashion to the GSP PSU1.)

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Older than I once was, younger than I'll be
.............................
Andrew


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 09 Aug 2015 at 9:31pm
All just 0s and 1s??

Well analogue and digital are just names and have one thing in common; they both involve the transduction of energy via the principle of electromagnetism. Both domains are governed by the same principles of physics even though the charge behaviour is different.


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2015 at 12:42pm
Many thanks to everyone for your responses to my query about linear power supplies and a SqueezeboxTouch. It's now a question of how much to spend to get a noticeable result. Any more comments or advice would be most welcome.

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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2015 at 4:27pm
My new GSP amps arrive tomorrow!! I've booked the day off work Majestic and Proprii heaven here I come.

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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2015 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by Ernie Ernie wrote:

My new GSP amps arrive tomorrow!! I've booked the day off work Majestic and Proprii heaven here I come.

I'm looking forward to hearing all about it.

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2015 at 9:41am
Hi Ifor,
I'm going to start a new thread as this ones got a bit convoluted. Can't quite get my head around how good the system sounds. I've not even tried any hi res files yet just Apple lossless and Spotify. I've never seen my speaker cones move like this!

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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.



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