Technics SL-1200/SL-1210... Who uses one (or two?)
Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Turntable Audio
Forum Name: DJ and Professional Turntable User
Forum Description: Technical Q&A, hints and tips
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26
Printed Date: 23 Apr 2024 at 10:36am
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Topic: Technics SL-1200/SL-1210... Who uses one (or two?)
Posted By: MrJoshua
Subject: Technics SL-1200/SL-1210... Who uses one (or two?)
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2008 at 10:47am
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So, I know Graham and John both use these turntables, as do I, but I wanted to know how many other people in the "audiophile" world use them.
In my mind, these are pretty much the pinnacle of turntable design. OK, the tone-arm might not be made from carbon fibre or what-have-you, but the amount of R&D that went into producing these seminal turntables in the 1970s was astronomical! I doubt any company nowadays could even think of spending so much on designing a turntable. The SL-1200 was designed when Vinyl was at its most popular, and the Matsush*ta/Panasonic/Technics company wanted to build the best turntable they could. I think they achieved their goal and more! What other turntable maintains the exact rotation speed, even with a finger pressing on the side of the record? What other turntable is so resistance to external vibration? What other turntable has been produced non-stop since 1978 to date, with only minor revisions, and still sells in pretty high numbers? Scratch that... Name me any consumer electrical item, hi-fi or not, that has been made for so long!!! They still look sexy too (especially in black), having most definitely stood the test of time visually. Oh, and remember, even though they are used in nightclubs and aspiring DJ's bedrooms, don't let that put you off as this deck was designed as an "audiophile" turntable from the outset. ------------- Cheers! Josh |
Replies:
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2008 at 11:24pm
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"Name me any consumer electrical item, hi-fi or not, that has been made for so long!!!" Denon DL103 MC the low-output moving coil Denon have been making uninterrupted, and unchanged, for the broadcast markets since 1962. That aside, it is interesting to note that a certain Danish cartridge manufacturer stopped supplying their "hi-fi" cartridges to kabusa who actively promote the use of the SL1200 as an audiophile TT, presumably afraid that he was "lowering their image". If I could be sure of getting a good one, I would probably prefer a good second hand SP10 to the SL1200 - I think it would pass your "finger test"  - but then I would probably want an SME 3012 to go with it and the whole shebang would be 3 times as dear. :P |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2008 at 8:23am
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Who uses one (or two)?
I know a reviewer who had 8! Some were standard, some used different arms including one fitted with an Origin Live Silver, some had their adjustable feet replaced with spikes.
Having worked in a place that made bespoke broadcast and production studio gear, the SL1200/1210 featured as part of every system where vinyl playback was required.
The "stock" fitted cartridge is what IMO lets it down. I forget which cartridge that is, as when buying ours I bought without. Carrying stocks of Audio Technica's AT95E, that's the cartridge that gets fitted by default, and the pairing delivers a very together or cohesive musical performance. But the SL's can do the biz with the more exotic like the Cartridgeman's Music Maker Classic at over a grand! Moving Coils are also tracked with relative ease, but some are prone to pick-up noise from the SL's electronics - hence I guess why it may not be considered Hi-Fi?
The arm is virtually identical to the Acos Lustre, so much so that it probably is one although the bearing housing has changed just a bit. The Acos Lustre came as the non-removeable (without destroying it) original arm on the Rega Planar's two and three for quite some time before the RB250 and RB300 were ever thought of. Needless to say, the Rega's didn't include the height adjuster, but would have benefited by it.
If only the ADC magnesium headshell was still available. That was the number one hi-fi tweak of the early eighties, and it worked. A number of other manufacturers headshells fit the SL's as they are what is termed "standard parts" - Stanton, Audio Technica, Skytech, etc. But I don't find them as user-friendly as the old ADC. A tuning tip with all of them is to remove the rubber washer, but after a prolonged period of time, the headshell can "weld" itself to the arm tube by electrolytic action - it's the job of the washer to prevent this.
The SL's also come with a cartridge alignment tool that removes the need for the long-winded iterative process of cartridge alignment using a protractor.
The great thing in my opinion is that the SL's not only sound good - they continue to sound good after severe use, where most hi-fi turntables would lose their edge.
The most lucid (but short lived) sound I ever heard from a turntable was the Opus3 Continuo/Hadcock/Music Maker 3. The SL1200/1210 can be coaxed to do almost the same with a bit of a tweak involving sticking bitumous flashing tape under the platter.
The Pioneer PL12D was of similar ilk (but belt instead of direct drive) and a hi-fi mag favourite, but the SL never got a look-in - such a shame! ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: MrJoshua
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2008 at 6:42pm
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Mine have Ortofon Concorde Nightclub S carts (and a "Pro S" spare) as I like to do a little bit of "wikky wikky wah wah" with them as well as listening to music. These sound a shed-load better than the Stanton 500 cart that is the de-facto standard on these decks... I either run mine through a Behringer mixer, or direct into the phono stage on my Cambridge Audio C500 Pre-Amp... I can only imagine how nice it'd sound with a proper cart and one of Graham's Phono Stages!!!
I don't suppose Audio Technica carts like being pulled backwards and forwards though do they? lol ------------- Cheers! Josh |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2008 at 9:32am
The Stanton 890 FS MP4 Cartridge set (2 cartridges, headshells and 2 eliptical styli as well as the fitted spherical styli) sound extremely good and are among my favourites. At two for 130 pounds (GBP) they're a bargain! And I've seen them on offer for 110 pounds! They'll also track backwards with ease and if offset (using the spherical styli), will do the wikki wikki wah wah really well.
------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Emmodd
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2008 at 12:47pm
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I've also got one. My first and currently only turntable.
Bought it 2nd hand last summer. Looked to have been well used but unsurprisingly worked perfectly once I had replaced the (missing) counterweight. Had the arm re-wired by Audio-Origami and have been very pleased with the outcome. Currently run it with the ISOplatmat and a 5mm Funk Achromat. Borrowed Darrens Herbies mat but didn't like it personally, despite all the positive press it seemed to have received.
Now in the process of building a vinyl collection and to be honest, enjoying it much more than my CD's.
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Posted By: MrJoshua
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2008 at 9:16pm
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I think I could do with borrowing a vinyl cleaner from someone... I have a pretty extensive 12" single collection, but years of dragging them round parties has left them in a pretty horrible state.
But WOW, when you find a good one that hasn't been abused - just WOW - it sounds so much more alive than digital recordings (even though the music itself is digital - Figure that out!) ------------- Cheers! Josh |
Posted By: Emmodd
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2008 at 10:37pm
| Have a word with Darren - he has a rather splendid record cleaner! |
Posted By: Darren/Audio Elevati
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2008 at 12:02pm
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Indeed! Usual rates apply!! (£1 a go).
Clearaudio Smart Matrix if you're interested. Got the 7" adapter too and use those Nagaoka-style anti static sleeves on all cleaned records.
Thanks to Dan for a bit of a plug. Considered Moth, Okki Nokki but Clearaudio seemed the best. Nice bit of German engineering. I do use the Moth Record Cleaning Fluid though as a lot cheaper than the Clearaudio stuff.
Seriously, though, this has gone down well at the record fairs we've done at the Doncaster Dome. Some guy asked me to clean his Argentinian numbered first pressing of some Clannad rubbish - want to see my hands shake? You bet they were! I then had to play it for him - it sounded f amazing on Acoustic Signature turntable with the modified Origin Live arm, Herbies mat and Shelter 201 cartridge through £3k worth of Luxman amp and £4700 Gershman speakers!!! I cleaned a Beatles double lp for one of the dealers there last week that was up for £325. If he sold it, he'd nearly have enough to buy his own record cleaning machine!
Happy to answer any questions on the Clearaudio either here or if someone wants to start a new thread perhaps. ------------- http://www.audioelevation.co.uk - Audio Elevation - taking your hi-fi to another level. |
Posted By: MrJoshua
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2008 at 10:57pm
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I tell you what... I'll dig through my collection to get together my favourite tracks and I'll give you a shout :)
Thanks! ------------- Cheers! Josh |
Posted By: Darren/Audio Elevati
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2008 at 4:52pm
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Josh Don't think I'm cleaning just one side of an album just 'cos you don't like what's on side B!! Darren
------------- http://www.audioelevation.co.uk - Audio Elevation - taking your hi-fi to another level. |
Posted By: Sol
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2008 at 6:20pm
I've got some digitally recorded classical on vinyl! For some reason it's sounds awesome .... not worked that out!! Any ideas anyone? ------------- Semper in excretum, nil profundum variat. Non illigitimum carburundum! Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum |
MrJoshua wrote:Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2008 at 10:27pm
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TBH I am not at all sure to what Mr J is referring when he says the music is digital. WRT your observation Sol, I rather suspect that it is not so much the technology used at the recording and mastering stage as the skill and experience of the engineers at getting the most from the source and setting the recording stage, eg mic placement, gain etc. Also, with a lot of classical music I suspect there will be less likely to be production room pressure to "make it louder" etc - in fact it often seems the case that the reverse is true and the overall volume is reduced (presumably to fit the length of the recording on the disc) Almost certainly this would be a topic on which Graham could enlarge more knowledgeably than I. I would make the observation however, that DAT is, I believe, capable of recording at a higher resolution than is used on standard redbook CD. |
Posted By: andy
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 11:57pm
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Well I have just purchased a 4 month old SL1210 MK2 in silver!!
I know that Graham has used this deck before (and i belive owns one) so i was wondering if either Graham or anyone else can come up with any modifications/tweeks that make the deck sing out loud!
I think i am the type of person that just likes playing and tweeking stuff.
So any ideas people??
------------- Source: Rega Apollo Amp: Graham Slee Solo with PSU1 Phono: Technics SL1210 Mk2 Headphones: AT W1000 |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 21 May 2008 at 12:24pm
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Andy, don't know about in the UK, but out here the 1200 is silver the 1210 is the black variant. Not that that answers your question, but maybe have a look on www.kabusa.com Good source of bits and tweaks and links. Another tip, Origin Live (and others) make arm bases for SL1200 that allow mounting of Rega and SME arms, I would imagine that within the available mounting space, it would be possible to mount a variety of other arms if you wanted. Perhaps the mods I would consider most would be to rewire the arm and change over the base to a DIN plug fitting and fit Jelco Crimson leads and RCA plugs and fit the damping trough mod. Maybe try one or two aftermarket mats and a record clamp. Best mod (IMO) - fit a Denon DL160 and drop it into your favourite vinyl ASAP (after connecting to a Reflex and appropriate other replay equipment - speakers are good too) You will need a phono stage between the deck and the Solo - but you knew that. Not on the "wheel of steel" but Martin Stephenson is at my place right now playing some rather fetching tunes, Ry Cooder was here earlier and Joni Mitchell will be along later.  My but that Reflex just sings along with all of them. |
Posted By: opkectp
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2008 at 8:03pm
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I use a 1200 and like it, although I am no TT expert and haven't heard that many different tables. I'd also be interested in talking tweaks. I'd like to do a re-wire but haven't taken the 1200 apart before. I imagine it isn't too hard. What would be a good 1st step (i.e. low cost) re-wire? I guess I could make my own wires much cheaper. Any ideas? |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2008 at 1:22am
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I wouldn't. In my honest opinion the biggest benefit would be to find a way of reducing the hum-field and one day I may have the time to do it. Then cartridges like the Music Maker Classic should sound stunning on it. I've tried one of these £1200 cartridges on my SL1210 and it's only the hum-field that I feel is the problem. The arm cable in my opinion is just right having a total cartridge to plug capacitance of around 90pF. If swapping cables it is important to keep as near to 100pF as possible otherwise the (moving magnet) cartridge response will be compromised, and it can be very hard to find cable having the right capacitance. Here Technics have done that job for you. ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2008 at 2:48am
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IMO and in keeping with Grahams recommendation, the easiest (not necessarily the cheapest) way to upgrade the wiring is to purchase the model 5G arm complete and wired and the model 5G wiring and phono plugs from Kabusa, this keeps it as Technics improved it for the model 5G and should not affect the capacitance. The arm is wired with OFC copper rather than tinned copper and said to give improved HF response the external wiring is also improved as are the phono plugs. I have not experienced the hum issues that Graham speaks of, but I am not using MM cartridges. There is a strobe disabler mod available, whether this will affect the hum at all I have no idea. Somewhere on the net I found a pictorial on re-wiring the arm on the 1200 if you are that way inclined but those 33 AWG wires are rather miniscule and slippery for aging eyesight and pretty hard to strip and solder. The direct armtube swap leaves you with a spare arm to fiddle with in safety |
Posted By: opkectp
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2008 at 5:53pm
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Thanks for the warning! I guess the first steps will be to get the cart and phono stage upgrades that you suggested in the other thread. I'll take a look at the upgraded arm assembly for an idea down the road. Sorry I forgot to mention my other equipment. I'm using a Conrad-Johnson MV-55 tube amp and a passive pre that I made myself. I wanted to do something DIY and that seemed basically unscrewupable. Also, I use Meadowlark Kestrel Hotrods for speakers and have a Marantz SA8001 for my digital front end. I spend a lot of time everyday in front of my audio gear, listening and also playing along some of the time. I'm fond of the CD player but have so much vinyl that I would like to give that part of my system a kick in the pants. Thanks again for your replies! |
Posted By: johnny diamond
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2008 at 6:33pm
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I use one, fantastic turntable...... I also have the ADC magnesium headshell and I can't see using this turntable without one..... I think it's only 1/2 gram differance compared to the technics headshell..... I sometimes wonder if these things are made intentionally???? anyways I have a denon DL-304 fitted..... and yeah sounds very good...... I chose the DL-304 because of compliance - doing the math, the resonance comes in at 9.6hz using the technics headshell.... (ADC = 9.4hz) again are these thing made intentionally or have I just watched to much Xfiles???? both the ADC headshell and denon DL-304 seem to fit the SL-1210 almost to well any thoughts on this........ To be honest I am a bit skeptical of using the denon DL-103, I just can't see that it mates at all with the SL-1210's arm.... doing the math you need a 35 gram arm, to bring the resonance down to 10hz..... does anybody have any experiance with the DL-103, with a SL-1210???? how important is compliance anyway???? Shure don't realise compliance figures, I had a M75ED type 2 and it sound good on whatever I put it on, although it sounded best on a sansui 222 MK4.... |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2008 at 2:44pm
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JD - Werner on tnt-audio did a review of the SL1200 and ran a DL103 on it. On the strength of that I tried one on my 1200 with as much extra mass as the arm could balance. My conclusion from extensive listening was that this cart does not work with this arm to any where near its potential, possibly it might fare better with the damping trough mod. I do not know what types of music others tried but on large orchestral pieces I found it wanting, on simpler work it was fine. The much higher compliance 301 was good as you have found with the 304. By contrast, many claim it not to work on Rega arms, that has not been my experience on a Michell Tecnoarm (modified RB250), on that, with 5 grams of additional mass and GSP Reflex/Exp combination I was amazed at the performance. That arm is not fitted to an SL1200. So my conclusion, if you must run a DL103 on an SL1200, fit a Rega arm (or possibly a Roksan Nima) - but why bother when other carts are better without the hassle. I am sure compliance is important in matching of arm effective mass to cartridge and while I might bodge around with adding mass to a stiff cartridge I do not think I would try a soft cartridge on anything other than a low mass arm. |
Posted By: less
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2008 at 8:38pm
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I have just ordered one, the SL1210MK5G. I know this model was in limited supply but my local Panasonic shop think that they can get one. As I want to play 78s I am going to have to invalidate my warranty almost immediately to ship the motor board to KAB in the States for modification, unless anyone knows of someone in the UK that can do this. I have been using, or rather not using, a secondhand Goldring 101 deck for more years than I care to think of so I am really looking forward to getting the Technics ' table. And of course, when the 78 mod is done I shall be ready to purchase a Revelation from Graham so that I can play the 78s at their proper EQ not to mention SQ!. While I'm waiting I can use the time to clean the box of 78s my mother-in-law has promised me this weekend! Regards Les ------------- I don't do mediocrity! Les Sutherland |
Posted By: johnny diamond
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2008 at 8:37am
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Hi less, welcome...... I was thinking about doing this mod myself.... It will be interseting hearing your experiances. I'm not sure that anyone else offer the mods that KABusa have. I have emailed kevin a couple of times and I find him very helpful. what cartridge are you planning on using for the 78's? |
Posted By: less
Date Posted: 19 Sep 2008 at 7:39pm
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Hi Johnny not sure which cartridge I will be using for 78s, still digging around for info any advice welcome! I have recently purchased a Goldring 2400 so I am hoping it will be ok for LPs on the LP1210 Les ------------- I don't do mediocrity! Les Sutherland |
Posted By: stewartwen
Date Posted: 18 May 2010 at 12:36pm
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At Soulful Dance we use 8 SL1210 turntables equipped wth a variety of pick up arms. We also use a number of Grahams RIAA units as well. Stewart /www.soulfuldance.co.uk/ |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 19 May 2010 at 7:20pm
Quite impressive "professor". The Genera could be a good candidate for your next upgrade... See http://www.gspaudio-community.activeboards.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=745 - http://www.gspaudio-community.activeboards.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=745 ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: stewartwen
Date Posted: 20 May 2010 at 11:49am
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Hmmmmmm sounds good Graham. I like the idea of discrete ICs, ie. one per channel. S ------------- Just a soul boy at heart |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2011 at 10:08pm
I bought a SL1210 mk2 second hand and took Graham's excellent  advice to take the transformer out. It's now in a project box at the end of 2 metres of speaker cable. I will try a new 21V regulator and extra capacitors before long.
I rewired the internal and external arm cables. Have just installed the loop filter mod (C.210) and I must say the SL1210 is growing on me. I think I will keep the using the Technics arm for now but I have ordered the OL armboard so I can try an RB301.
The mat is an old Rega wool mat, I am going to try some others but have noted the lip on the Technics platter. Any tips guys?
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2011 at 11:19pm
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Jon, I have been very happy with the Funk Achromat (even on the Acrylic platter on my Rega) - because of the lip on the Technics, I fitted an SRM Tech 2mm silicone mat, which I trimmed with scissors to fit inside the lip. This damps the ringing of the alloy and provides grip for the Achromat which sits on top - I use the 3mm mat on the Technics because of this to allow sufficient spindle for a weight to locate. You might get away with the 5mm. I believe Arthur K now offers a version suited to the lipped platter of the 1200. I found the Funk to provide the best balance of the mats I tried, which included rubber, felt, acrylic, SDS, Extreme Phono none-felt and Carbon - I think the boys on AOS have finally discovered it as well (after being Herbies mat fans). I do think the weight is part of getting the best from this mat. The one I use is very like the one described by Rudolf Bruil on his soundfountain site and comes from a US ebay seller called "gilabend" IIRC. I have not tried any of the exotic (expensive) mats like copper, graphite etc. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2011 at 11:53pm
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Thanks Tony, you've narrowed things down a lot for me. Based on your advice. I will probably order a 1200 model Achromat. I've got the Origin Live mat in the post so I will try that first. But I am intrigued by the silicone mat plus Achromat sandwich you described.
Best wishes Jon
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2011 at 8:44pm
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I am looking forward to the armboard arriving and trying my upgraded RB301 on the Technics.
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2011 at 4:31am
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Jon, I will be interested in what your thoughts are on this. I have tried an RB250 and made a number of observations that led me to take it off and return to the stock arm. Admittedly, amongst these are my preference for easy cartridge changes and also the fact that I have some rather low compliance cartridges that I used. Presumably you will use the Music Maker. You may also find the deck to show a more marked response to changes in footers with the Rega fitted. Whatever, it is all good fun. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2011 at 8:39pm
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Tony, I want to make the most of the stock arm in the same spirit of good fun. You've given me some smart ideas already, is there anything I can do to make more of the stock arm?
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2011 at 5:37am
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Jon, you have already rewired it so that is covered. I do think the damper trough mod might be worth a try and I would consider a different headshell. Lengthy and extensive trials of a variety of cartridges, feet, supports and mats have led me to the conclusion that in optimising any turntable it is necessary to consider it as an entire system, including mat, platter, arm, cartridge, plinth, feet and support stand and to understand that it is about resonance control. There are two main sources of resonance/vibration to control, external and those generated by the stylus/groove interaction. The objectives are therefore twofold, to minimise external influences and to dissipate the unwanted effects of the stylus/groove interaction. The best mats will help to dissipate unwanted resonances generated in the record playing surface. That leaves the dissipation of unwanted resonances in the cartridge body and those transferred to the arm to be addressed. The lower the compliance of the cartridge the higher will be the forces generated, the more rigid the cartridge/arm connection and the arm/plinth connection the more these will be transferred into the plinth and either need to be absorbed within its mass or transferred to its supporting surface via its feet and thence grounded or otherwise dissipated, by the supporting structure. Relatively inexpensive feet you might try are foculpods (just fit into the stock feet) or appropriately threaded speaker spikes. IME, changing any one of the parts of the system (mat, cartridge, arm coupling, feet, stand) alters the effect of the others. As an example, one mat may provide a particular effect whilst the table is on one support but a different or little effect when the table is supported differently (say a change to a wall mounted shelf). Naturally the greatest change will come from a cartridge change, then everything else may need adjusting to deal with its particular "resonance signature" (for want of a better term). The Technics is very well setup for the rejection of external influences, but, to my hearing, less able to dissipate excess energies injected into the plinth by the combination of a low compliance cartridge and a tightly coupled arm more rigid than the stock arm which has a number of mechanical connections allowing a degree of dissipation. With a low compliance cartridge I found it better to attempt a degree of de-coupling of the Rega arm including lead washers under the mount plate and rubber "O" rings between the arm base and mount, whilst tightening the lock ring barely past contact. The RB301 will be a different proposition (WRT de-coupling the mounting) not having the through stem of the older design. It may well be that your cartidge will not inject the same amount of energies into the arm of those I tried. Pardon the lengthy exposition, doubtless there is much you already know, I did need to clarify my thoughts on the matter to indicate why it might be difficult to make specific recommendations when using a cartridge with which I am not familiar. Short answer, a better headshell, perhaps an LPgear "Zupreme" (Sumiko type) or one of the AT magnesium ones (the Zupreme and some of the AT ones also allow azimuth adjustment) - I might be tempted to try a Yamamoto ebony; the damper trough mod. |
Posted By: Cyreg
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2011 at 9:29am
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Sorry > of no importance to this thread at all > no experience with Technics DD's
 , but...... with this quote from Tony's post, I had to think about Roy Gandy and Rega
 That's how RG's general conception on Rega TT's and arms takes place > get a good combi!
I am using Rega TT setups for more than 30 years now and atm standard P5/PSU/Elys2.
 Knowing there are much upgrade paths available for Rega, I still always kept them standard....
..and only just putting the money to the next level of Rega TT, although I was tempted a few times.
But now I probably will get more adventurous and change to OriginLive TT AuroraMkII/Onyx arm.
Why??? Don't know exactly > maybe try out some different carts with adjustable arm
 Anyway > good luck on the Technics road > I'll follow this nice thread on a distance again. Han
------------- TecnoDec/RB250/MP110>GramAmp2C/PSU1; Cyrus CD8SE; Cyrus FM7 > Exposure XXXV > Harbeth C7ES-3 '35th Anniversary' cabling: IC 3x DNM V3; LScable Exposure DMF-two; Furu TP60 + MWaY and AH! powercords |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2011 at 12:11pm
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Thanks Tony for your thorough and informative posting. Much appreciated, especially the fine tuning. I am going to try a better headshell next!
The Technics was a "must have a go sometime" project I have started on. I offered to set up someone else's 1210 to get a close look at the workings and generally liked what I saw inside. With some online research to find the consensus on 1210 mods and the advice of my fellow GS Forum members, I reckon there is some fun to be had fine tuning the stock 1210/II and experimenting. Trying the 301 arm will be interesting and probably decide how far I go.
I can see your points about Rega gear make sense Han, thank you. I intend to keep my Rega turntable (upgraded P3-24) but borrow its arm on try on the 1210. Generally I like the Rega sound but I clean my records and adjust the VTA, despite RG's comments on all this!
Thanks again. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2011 at 6:03pm
Following tg's advice I bought an Achromat 1200 from Hifisound. It is a considerable improvement on any of the mats I had available, as I had expected given tg's investigations. The Technics' full and deep bass is still there but the midrange and treble are clearer.
If anyone else is thinking about an Achromat, it is 5mm thick with a hollow on the top for the record label, smooth on the underside with a cutaway rim on the 1200 model. It comes with 6 think double sided stickers to secure the mat to the platter. A well designed and made product I would recommend it to you as tg did. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2011 at 12:56am
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Jon, glad you like it - now note the last part of my post
Check what Rudolf has to say here - http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/puck.html" rel="nofollow - soundfountain
Then check his dimensions against those on http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bren1-Record-Clamp-USA-MADE-Hide-record-lables-and-improve-sound-USA-MADE-/270837707712?pt=DJ_Gear_Lighting&hash=item3f0f2f73c0" rel="nofollow - this listing In my estimation the weight does 2 things to improve the effect of the Achromat, firstly it reduces the possibility of record slippage with varying stylus pressure/drag and perhaps more importantly it improves the contact of the record and mat and aids in the transfer of resonances to the mat. Han, I do appreciate your point of view and it is a very valid one (but not nearly as much fun ) - some of us just cannot help proving for ourselves that the best shape for a wheel is still round.  Like Jon I do find cleaning records to be vastly preferable to expecting the stylus to do the job (as do most visitors to whom I demonstrate the difference with their own records on my system). That said, people of RG's experience are very worth while listening to, their thoughts being very worthy of consideration and personal appraisal as to their application within one's own system. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2011 at 11:18am
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Oops! I forgot to write that I have several clamps and weights. I have been using one with the Achromat and agree with tg about the benefits. Thank you for the link about the aluminium weight and the e-bay product tg. I accept that it will sound different to the brass (and felt pad) Project puck I have and will look into the aluminium option.
By pushing the 3 layers (LP/mat/platter) together the weight seems to reduce any slippage, which is helpful. I haven't used the sticky disks that came with the Achromat because I want to keep using the two finger holes in the platter. As most people know the Technics platter is low profile and set in a recess so the two finger holes are very useful!
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2011 at 1:04pm
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All good then Jon, did not want you to miss half the benefit of the mat. Appreciate what you say about keeping the finger holes accessible. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 10:51pm
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tg, your advice on the Achromat 1200 plus weight was spot on. I also took the transformer out on Graham's advice. I think the arm rewire helped as well but it is fiddly work. The SL1210 is a very good turntable and the Technics arm is pretty decent. Not bad for £170, even without £20 of parts and some bench work. I think I preferred the rewired RB301 because it is a bit livelier but I can see why the stock arm has its supporters. It sounds fine for lots of different music types and the headshell is handy for switching cartridges (and allows quick azimuth changes), plus the easy VTA and bias changes are very appealing as others have said already.
Definitely a keeper!
This thread was one of the most useful I found about SL1200/1210 mods. My thanks to everyone who posted about their experiences and ideas. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2011 at 10:25pm
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I have since fitted an Origin Live arm board for Rega arms and tried an Origin Live arm with the MM3 fitted. It's a really good sound and the solid style of the SL1210 mk2 has really grown on me. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 11:55am
By coincidence I'm doing exactly the same! I have the OL "board" and an OL arm with the intention of fitting in the near future. What did you do about earthing Jon? At present I'm not sure which cart. to fit? I understand there can be hum problems with the MM3 and SL1210 and I don't want to move the transformer outside the deck. There is even some very faint hum with the MM3 fitted to my Roksan which is only audible between tracks. ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2011 at 9:09pm
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I took Graham's advice and got the transformer out before I did anything else. I can't be sure how the MM3 is on a 1210 without doing this. I just held the box with the Technics transformer about 200mm from the MM3 and could hear the hum, but there was a shield around it inside the 1210 and the angle is a factor, so it might be better in the "stock" setting. I suggest asking other members.
The Technics transformer is further away than the 24V motor on a P3-24 so it may not be a big problem. On the Rega I found the hum just audible in track gaps, and more noticeable at the end of the side. Earthing the motor casing helped and I must comment that the MM3 is excellent otherwise in my opinion.
On the OL board I did a little filing and scraping on the washers and the two metal plates. I used a multimeter to check continuity on the earthing from the 1210 chassis to each of the OL metal plates. This may be overkill for MM use.
Then I stripped 5mm from a 10cm long insulated wire and looped it under the screw and washer where the Technics arm's earth tag attaches to the speed control assembly. Stripped and tinned the end of this wire, stripped a bit off the OL earthing wire. Soldered the two wires together, did another multimeter test for continuity between the various things. There is an easier way...
Hope this helps and wish I had taken some photos. Incidentally the arm is a Zephyr.
...at MM levels I think you could just keep the Technics chassis earth wire and attach both it and the OL earth to the earth pillar on the phono preamp. Earthing the OL arm board plates is probably me over engineering so it might be fine just having two earth leads. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 9:40pm
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My next upgrade is to replace the SL1210's internal power supply diodes, add some large capacitors and a better 21V regulator. There are several external power supplies on sale so I am hoping an internal DIY will help the motor/servo. Has anyone any experiences to share?
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 3:33pm
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Thanks for the info Fatmangolf. I completed the arm and "board change successfully, well mostly. Not quite the Zephyr version, only the basic OL1 (RB251 3 point mount) arm for now which would seem to be a big improvement on the stock Technics jobby. I just connected the existing earth(s) to the bottom of the board utilising one of the fixing nuts which has proved sufficient using the Denon 110 HOMC. No hum - nothing audible I have to gain access again though as the arm is not completely parallel with the record surface, still up a bit at the pivot end.  My only gripe would be the VTA adjustment is not achieved from above.The only casualty was a stripped thread in the hole for one of the rubber base corners, long screw under one of the feet. Not the end of the world fortunately, as long as I don't do the same again to any more. ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 5:06pm
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Good results there on fitting and earthing. I cut the rubber base away so I can get at the underside of the arm, washer, and nut assembly. One my long black bolts also fell out as well!
Is there any induced hum from the transformer with your 110? ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 8:19pm
Being the newer three point mounting and knowing my luck, if I cut a suitable access hole in the rubber, I'd end up dropping one or more of the small securing nuts into the deck base when releasing the arm to alter the VTA!  I'll risk removing the 21 screws (again) without stripping another thread when replacing them. Those four corner screws appear to be the most likely for that to happen. I was pleasantly surprised to hear nothing resembling hum from the transformer or anywhere else on completion. I checked at full volume through speakers and also headphones/Solo. I might try the structural upgrade at a later date which involves fitting a different counterweight and it's stub piece. ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 11:46pm
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Ah, yes I see the challenge!
Does it sound okay to you? If so, enjoy the music. If the pivot end is a little high I guess the SRA is pretty close on thicker vinyl. For standard LP's you could get one of the OL mats as a spacer or make a disk of 1-2mm thick leather or vinyl? That would give you a quick SRA/VTA adjustment perhaps. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 11:14am
I'm using a Funk Achromat which is 5mm thick (the original Technics rubber mat is only about about 1mm thicker) and the Rega "stepped" height adjuster under the arm base. It's on the 4mm extra height position and the mistake (yet another!) was just checking whether parallel to a record surface by eye while lying on the floor (don't ask) and the tapered pivot end of the arm is distracting too. That's my feeble excuse. I should have measured or even used Roksan's protractor which has horizontal lines for the purpose. I would say that the arm will be correct without the Rega "adjuster" at all and just secured directly to the board. So I'm going to need 4mm of "spacer" mats which will raise the record to near the spindle top! But it does sound fine as it is so there's no desperate rush to remove the deck's base anytime soon. I will also be dragging out the PT t/table soon with Denon DL304MC already fitted. That will give the Elevator something to do instead of sitting there idle and only powered up. ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 11:59am
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If it is of any help, I use a piece of graph paper with 2mm squares, about 50mm x 30 mm, cut accurately along the lines. Place a record on the platter, then lower the stylus to the record, place the paper behind the cartridge with the long edge resting on the record surface, it is then fairly easy to level off the top of the cartridge against the lines on the paper. If it is too difficult holding the paper, glue it to a small block of wood with PVA and rest the block on the record. Have not used one of the new Rega arms, but would expect that you could glue a piece of 5mm acrylic sheet under the mounting holes and drill and tap it to eliminate the need for loose nuts only accessible from under the deck - eg the mounting screws would screw directly into the acrylic sheet. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 1:01pm
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Thanks tg, very helpful suggestions.
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2011 at 11:06am
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Thanks tg. Excellent ideas/tips with regards the acrylic and graph paper. The graph paper's 2mm squares will also give a more accurate measurement as to how "out of parallel" the arm is rather than guessing with only horizontal lines or fiddling around with a rule. ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2012 at 10:27pm
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I must confess that I didn't get round to the PSU replacement in my 1210mk2. But there may be an update coming sometime soon!
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: garygillespie
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 5:16pm
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I have two 1200's with a Rane mixer, and use Ortofon Night Club E (thinking about upgrading to the S-120 since I also use Serato). I'm in the process of building a second set up for ripping vinyl, and that's what I'll use my Graham Slee for. btw, I have an Ortofon 2M Black for ripping my vinyl. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 10:09pm
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Welcome to our community Gary. Jon ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: garygillespie
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2012 at 11:46pm
Thank you, I'm looking forward to this. |
Posted By: Frostg
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2012 at 11:40am
| How easy is it to do the PSU upgrade in the 1200? What sort of cost? Thanks |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2012 at 12:02pm
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If you want to do this. DIY it's a plastic box and some speaker cable, but it is mains wiring and requires care and experience! It's a lot cheaper than buying a ready built PSU unit. Plenty of people are very happy with the SL1200/10 as stock. I bought it as a project with the intention of modifying it with the arm rewire, taking the transformer out, altering the servo circuit, replacing the arm, upgrading the internal power supply, etc. It was pretty good to start with and good value! ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: garygillespie
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2012 at 11:54pm
This site has a PSU http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/ISONOE.htm=" rel="nofollow - kabusa , it also has all sorts of other upgrades for 1200's. I thought about buying some of their upgrades, Has anyone used any of their equipment? |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2012 at 1:45am
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Hi Gary, I have bought a few bits from Kevin without any problems, by all reports he is very good to do business with. I have considered and may yet fit his damping trough mod (funds permitting). For someone living in the US he would be a very good option for 1200 upgrades. I have seen reports elsewhere that there are better PS options, mostly UK made and more expensive, there may of course be an element of parochialism in such reports, but they may be worth investigating. Naturally if your own skill level is sufficient, much can be done without resort to third party mods. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 9:22pm
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Despite the significant mass and damping inside an SL1200/1210 I have tried putting some Foculpods under the stock feet, flat side up. Mine is on a spiked wall shelf attached to a supporting wall. The deck wobbles a little bit more but I think the bass is tighter/faster. It's a reasonably cheap idea to try. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2012 at 11:00am
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Good tip Jon. I'm sure I have something similar from years ago stashed away somewhere! They're not branded Foculpods though. However, I think they are manufactured using Sorbothane. Are the Foculpods soft and "sticky"? By soft I mean quite pliable. Edit to add - found them.  They are marked Spectra Dynamics - Foculpod, 50mm diameter x 20mm. I also found a smaller set(4 off unbranded), 40mm diameter which I used to use under a separate glass plate which my Tarantella used to sit on. Didn't make any noticeable difference to that. I'll definitely try the larger ones under the SL1210 next time it has an airing though. I have a similar arrangement, i.e. solid support wall mounted shelf. ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2012 at 5:37pm
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They are something like Sorbothene and much better than half squash balls in half. Let us know what you think. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2012 at 11:52am
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I have had the wire and plugs for 4 years now and finally got around to getting up the courage to rewire the arm on my Technics. I made a continuous run from the headshell socket to Eichmann phono plugs. Quite fiddly and not to be rushed, with a couple of "gotchas" along the way, but the end result seems quite worthwhile. Previously in this thread I had written off the DL-103 on this arm as not being up to what it can do. I will now retract that BTW I note previous mention of stripping the thread on one of the long corner bolts, bet I know which one you both stripped, the one in the power switch corner. |
- it is sounding rather good right now - hope the neighbours are enjoying it too. Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2012 at 10:58pm
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Nice one Tony. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 02 May 2012 at 6:06pm
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Curiously the change the SL1200/1210 PSU to internal/external versions discussion has popped up on VE. I guess I am one of a number of us who goes there too. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 02 May 2012 at 8:36pm
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You are just trying to egg me on aren't you? That all looked half worth a crack. $600+ for a PS I can't even think of doing, but a bit more tinkering - hmmmmmm. Maybe after I finish rebuilding my DAC and swapping caps in the amp. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 02 May 2012 at 9:27pm
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Sorry Tony. I took Graham's advice and just took the transformer out into a sturdy plastic box. Kept the stock rectifier, smoothing caps, regulators. So cost was box and grommets, and heavy duty speaker cable from box into chassis. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 02 May 2012 at 10:01pm
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I'll open it up and take some photos if anyone's interested? The VE thread on 1200 PSU includes some very good photos that are enough with the service manual if you have the gear and skills. And I've got a "to-do" item in my list with a 21V low noise regulator and some FC caps to go into the SL1210. One of these days... ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 14 Aug 2012 at 7:55pm
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This autumn I plan to rebuilt my SL1210's PSU. Has anyone here done this and any thoughts on the amount of smoothing/reservoir caps? I had 3 x 2,200uF in mind. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2013 at 8:00pm
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Well I have finally done this with an external 21V supply and found that one 2,200uF 25V was plenty inside the TT. I bypassed it with a Mylar Film 1uF. My observations are: It has removed the low level mains hum I could hear with the volumke on full Otherwise the sound seems pretty similar to the SL1210 with the extra 4,000uF of reservoir caps I added One day I will change to blue LED's on the strobe and pitch control... ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2013 at 8:54pm
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Jon, if you ever try a 2,200uF 63V general purpose, let me know if you can tell any difference? ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2013 at 10:30pm
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I've used a Rubycon that was spare from a previous project and covered the 21V. Do you have a particular make/model of 2,200uF 63V in mind? ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2013 at 8:11am
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Any economy range electrolytic from the "big four" (Farnell, Rapid, RS, Maplin)
------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2013 at 5:28pm
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I'll give it that a try, thank you. I wonder if I will hear 1) a huge difference or 2) no difference whatsoever!
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2013 at 5:47pm
I'll be interested to know ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2013 at 7:36pm
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I'll pick two up tomorrow and try one and then both. I'll post my observations. [Hope to get out tomorrow and get the caps - update to follow] ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2013 at 10:30pm
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Well I have fitted a 63 Volt 2,200uF GP capacitor inside my SL1210/II, bypassed by a 1uF film capacitor as before. I'll give it some burn-in time and report back. So far it seems fine, certainly no change in the pitch or dynamics. Cleaning and re-lubing the spindle bearing made more difference, as did changing the servo loop components (see earlier posts). It was fairly easy to switch the 4 red strobe LED's to blue and re-use the original mains on/off switch for them instead. The music from the SL1210/II sounds great through my Reflex M and Proprius amps. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2013 at 10:32pm
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I have replaced the Technics bearing and prefer the new one. I can hear the kick drum hits more clearly. The lower friction is obvious when I spin the platter in "stop" mode, certainly double the revolutions it had before with the serviced Technics bearing. That friction would hav ebeen heat and vibration i.e rumble. It sounds great now but I am exploring a split supply to the different sections i.e. the two 21V Vcc's, the 9V, and the 5V. There's some interesting stuff out in Webland. Admittedly this may never get beyond my drawing board. Has anyone tried this in practice? ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2013 at 8:47am
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Hmmm... be careful with the grounds. Each power section being already grounded together, it's going to be a question on where your multi-section-supply ground "meeting point" touches down with the Technics? You may be able to cut the SL's ground tracks, pull out local regulators and connect back to your supply, but the art is where you do it. "Star earths" are talked about a lot, but often the point is missed. "Star earths" make pretty circuit board patterns but don't guarantee proper grounding. Better to call a star earth a meeting point or "Mecca" and make it only one. Then you can route back the SL's cut PCB grounds to that meeting point, and probably avoid serious ground currents. But, you're still going to need local decoupling where the regulators were, due to the increased wiring lengths. ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2013 at 2:15pm
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Thanks for that excellent advice, I realise now that I could make things worse if I don't get the grounds right. I will follow your guidance above and look more closely at what others have done before to see how well the grounds are handled. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2013 at 9:30pm
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Well, I've traced the various supply rails and the 0V/grounds on the circuit layout in the service manual. My conclusion is that the DC ground from the original bridge rectifier hits the circuit board right next to the chassis earth point and all the grounds go out from there. So I will use what is there already. I will try the following: External SMPS +21V dc supply comes into the board near IC101 to feed the motor drive circuits Ground/0V in near the chassis earth (bottom Left) Regulated +9V to IC301, + fed from dc in but connect ground locally (i.e into existing grounds on PCB) Regulated +5V to IC302, + fed from dc in but connect ground locally Regulated +16V to Q201/IC201, + fed from dc in but connect ground locally. Adjusting the existing resistors to suit the change to 16V. The 3 regulators will be as close as I can make them but I will use local decoupling capacitors (probably 10uF) as you recommended. It's an experiment with £20 of parts and a few hours work. I'll reverse it if it doesn't work as well as the present setup. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2013 at 9:41pm
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I forgot to mention that I had carefully fitted "Anti-vibe" to the underside of the SL1210 platter. It is now about 1/2 kilo or 1 pound heavier and does not ring with or without the Achromat. I think the low bass is more solid now without affecting the rest of the music, but it's not a mod. for quick A/B testing! ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2013 at 7:36pm
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A quick update on the improved regulators which I managed to get onto the main PCB. I've fitted separate 7809's with decoupling capacitors to power the controller* and pitch IC's, a 7805 with capacitors for the switching logic IC, and added another large capacitor near the driver IC. * After some thought I decided to ignore the 10.0V on Vcn, take out Q201 and just supply a new 9V supply to pin 9 and the circuits that run off IC201. It was nice to work on a relatively spacious 80's style board albeit one made in 2007! ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2013 at 8:51pm
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I tried an SMPS with switched output and found the driver IC and motor work from 16-22 Volts, perhaps even higher. A datasheet for the AN6675 would be helpful if anyone's every seen one? And the modified SL1210 sounds very good! ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fernando
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2014 at 4:32pm
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I'm looking for Rega RB300 for replace my Technics original tonearm 1210MK2. If anyone knows anything please let me know. Cheers Fernando
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2014 at 9:35pm
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From time to time I'm asked "where can I buy a Technics SL1200 or Technics SL1210?" You can't get them new anymore so you'll have to put up with used/secondhand. But I have a warning for you.... DON'T TRUST ANYBODY SELLING SL1200/1210's ON EBAY OR AMAZON! I bought a total of 4, got a refund on one (the Amazon one), and was ripped off on three (the eBay ones)! I bought them for the business - businesses take risks - can you afford to? I will repair some of the three I'm stuck with, eventually, and I don't doubt they will become good turntables, but here again, I'm used to having to strip down mechanical things and rebuilding them. ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2014 at 9:51pm
Is an AO modified RB251 worthy of your consideration? It's currently on my SL1200 Mk2, but it will be coming back off when my FX1200 gets back from it's winter upgrade. ------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. |
Posted By: Lucabeer
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2014 at 7:17am
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Has someone given a look at the AudioTechnica AT-1240? Looks like a blatant clone to me, and I was giving it some consideration for when I might have to replace my old Pioneer, since I don't want to buy a used Technics (you never know how the previous owner handled it)... |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2014 at 8:41am
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For me the only "issues" with the Technics are likely to be the bearings and the VTA adjuster. New bearings are available fairly cheap, and you can get more from the deck with a better arm, so neither would be a problem. If you take your time, you can find a good one. Pioneer have released shots of a new DD turntable, which could be a good option for replacement when the time comes. ------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2014 at 8:42am
If it were me, I'd go for a used Technics over any clone - of which there are quite a few. Not all 1210s have been used for DJ-ing. The build quality of Technics is well known and the clones are very likely to be of lower standard. Having said that - I've never seen an AT-1240 in the metal (plastic?), let alone heard one . . .  ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2014 at 8:52am
------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2014 at 9:11am
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Here you go. %20 - http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-news/pioneer-teases-new-turntable-range-at-musikmesse-2014/ ------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2014 at 9:20am
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I have tried the (original) Audio Technica PL120 which looks like Technics SL1200. However, in my opinion it is a 'toy' compared to the SL1200. The tonearm is geared to high down-force cartridges and cannot be adjusted for hi-fi cartridges without additional weight at the counterweight end - and no additional counterweight is supplied or is easily realizable. It is direct drive but not like the Technics - the platter is not the rotor of the motor - the spindle is driven and the turning effort is transmitted to the platter by virtue of its tapered interface. The sub-platter area is spaced off the body by spacers and screws that make no engineering sense to me - whoever designed it has a poor grasp of engineering principles IMO. The Technics SL1200 often comes in for some 'stick' regarding mains noise shielding, but the AT-PL120 is far worse. If I were given a BSR MP60, Garrard SP25 MkIII or IV, and the AT-PL120, and told to choose two out of the three, the AT-PL120 would not be one of them... Also the PL120 has a switch to select between line-out and cartridge-out, but it leaves in the input loading of the built-in phono preamp, so that when using it as a 'straight' turntable (cartridge out), the cartridge is phono preamp input loaded twice! That leads to an awful sound. Likewise, I would believe the modern USB type turntables will also leave their phono preamp input loading in place, because a simple slide switch will not 'remove' the stage completely. But this is progress, and progress in today's 'language' means sleepwalking back again! ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2014 at 9:29am
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When I tried the link it didn't work, so I'm trying it here... http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-news/pioneer-teases-new-turntable-range-at-musikmesse-2014/ - http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-news/pioneer-teases-new-turntable-range-at-musikmesse-2014/ Let us hope the Pioneer is not a 'toy' too! ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2014 at 9:37am
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Doh! Another 1210 clone! I'm sure Pioneer could have used a little creativity in the styling. As you say, Graham, let's hope it's not another toy as far as performance goes . . . ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2014 at 10:50am
Some of the older Pioneer decks are quite nice, so as long as the bean counters don't interfere too much, one of the decks higher up the range could be quite good. ------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2014 at 11:47am
 ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2014 at 1:58pm
I remember the PL12D - excellent sound! ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |