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Proprius and high efficiency single driver speaker

Printed From: Graham Slee at Hifi System Components
Category: And the rest
Forum Name: Amplification
Forum Description: Share your interests or views on amplifiers, preamps, etc
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2221
Printed Date: 03 Jun 2020 at 6:22pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Proprius and high efficiency single driver speaker
Posted By: Jackal008
Subject: Proprius and high efficiency single driver speaker
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2014 at 6:13am
This info may well already exist in this forum somewhere, however could you more learned folk advise if a pair of Proprius amps would be OK with high efficiency single driver speakers? Note, I am running a Reflex M and Elevator EXP as pre-amp stage and NAD C356BEE integrated amp.

Examples of speakers for reference to would the Omega or Hoyt-Bedford ranges where they require minimum 2W or 1W respectively.

If they are a good pairing, what are examples of how they are incorporated into a stereo system i.e. source (TT) into EXP into Reflex M then NAD C356 split into Proprius then into speakers?

This project's getting bigger...


-------------
Carl

First album I heard as a kid: LA Woman - The Doors



Replies:
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2014 at 6:59am
Me thinks a slight misunderstanding has taken place regarding "minimum of 2W or 1W..."

I read "Power Requirement: as little as 2 watts" on one spec. and also noted the following statement...

"ALL AMPLIFIER TYPES WELCOME

Hoyt-Bedford speakers are true thoroughbreds, but with a difference, they are friendly to all amp types and present an easy 8 ohm load. They, however, clearly reflect what is in front of them, so a quality amp is paramount not to mention source, interconnects, and speaker wire. You might say "that leaves me out". Not true, because there are a lot of affordable, quality amps, sources, interconnects, and speaker wire out there that punch far above their weight and price point that will work well with these speakers."

Given that the Proprius will drive the Harbeth M20 monitors which Harbeth say requires a 40 watts amp - and the Proprius does 45.5 watts into 4 Ohms, which the M20 is... then from the information provided, the Omega or Hoyt-Bedford speakers will be easily catered for.

The bit that says "Not true, because there are a lot of affordable, quality amps, sources, interconnects, and speaker wire out there that punch far above their weight and price point that will work well with these speakers." could easily describe what we have to offer... not only the Proprius, but the Spatia speaker cables and links, Lautus interconnects, and of course: the Reflex M and Elevator EXP.

With just the one analogue source??? The very next step would be the Majestic DAC and you'd have a complete Slee amplification system Smile

If it were possible to do a road show in Sydney I could wow you with its sound. Unfortunately the nearest I can get to you is Aylesbury in England in May - but I'll be demo'ing the above mentioned items there.

Best regards,

Graham




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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Jackal008
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2014 at 7:12am
Graham

Thanks for such a quick reply, I can now start plotting a path ahead. I could just well be in the market for a new DAC, so there you go. A complete GSP setup would be very welcome indeed.

Carl


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Carl

First album I heard as a kid: LA Woman - The Doors


Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 14 May 2014 at 2:49pm
I get the impression there are a few of us in Australia dying to hear the Majestic DAC along side our GSP phono preamps and Proprius power amps.


Posted By: Shaun the Sheep
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2014 at 10:52am
Not sure if this is the right place to post this but, hey, here goes!

Firstly a great many thanks to Fatmangolf for arranging the loan of a pair of Slee-Ps (Proprius monoblocks!). They arrived as promised, along with a lovely pair of phono-to-xlr interconnects. We are down-sizing and have sold our massive Tannoy speakers and Quad 909 monoblocks. We have just invested in a pair of Electric Beach Frugal 3s - a full-range single driver speaker using the Mark Audio Alpair 7.3 driver. They are more domestically acceptable than the old Tannoys and, frankly, sound much better. Amazing bass, vitality and transparency. I had considered building a pair myself but then I saw the Electric Beach version. No contest!

We need an amplifier to drive these speakers and our preferred option is a pair of monoblocks. Hence the trial of the Slee-Ps. We have a very simple set up - Quad 99 CDP/Pre-amp, directly connected to a pair of monoblocks which are then connected to the speakers with as short a length of speaker cable as possible. We have a PS3 connected to the CDP, using one of the optical-ins, to perform streaming, gaming and TV duties.

The Proprii arrived just before we took delivery of the Frugal 3s so we ran them up with a pair of JBL Control 1 mini-monitors from our (pompous name!) 'home studio.' £1,300-worth of amps and £70 speakers - surely some mistake? Not so. There's a reason why there is a pair of Control 1s in just about every professional recording studio: they are brilliant at what they do. And they certainly excelled with the Graham Slees. Massive soundstage, immense clarity but, and much more importantly to a family of musicians, real musicality. Toe-tapping, head-nodding, emotion-stirring stuff.

So, what about the full-range Frugal 3s? There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Proprius Monoblocks are outstanding but would they be suited to something a bit more 'esoteric?' No worries on that score. Our Frugals arrived fully run-in and we're duly set up as instructed by Steve Jay from Electric Beach. Insert CD, light blue touch-paper and stand back. Brilliant stuff. All the attributes exhibited by the Control 1s with knobs on. The signs of a great set-up seem to be: "I heard things on tracks I've known for years that I've never heard before." - check; 'the soundstage seemed to stretch from one wall to another' - check; 'the sound was highly detailed and involving without being fatiguing - I listed for hours.' - check; 'high frequencies sparkle, vocals sound 'in the room' and bass is full, rich but controlled' - check.

Sounds like a eulogy doesn't it, but, in our room, with our selection of music this has been the best sound we have ever heard. My wife's immediate reaction on hearing the Slee-Ps with the Control 1s was: 'Why do we need new speakers, just buy the amps!'. But we were already committed to the Frugal 3s and, once they were installed, they took things to a completely new level. Musically satisfying, emotionally involving, and domestically acceptable to boot. The quality of finish that Steve Jay from Electric Beach achieves is excellent. The diminutive Slee-Ps disappear on the equipment rack. The possibility of mounting them on, or next to, the speakers is also worth exploring. 

Just two problems. The demo amps had to go back and we have to find £1,500.00 for a pair of Proprii and a pair of interconnects! Now, where is that lottery ticket.......


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Shaun.


Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2014 at 2:33pm
'Cracking' write up Shaun! I see the Frugal 3s have a sensitivity of 85.8dB. Useful for others to know . . .

You say the Frugal 3s have amazing bass; how does it compare with the big Tannoys you had - I'm sure they weren't shy in the bass department? I've often wondered about single driver speakers, but expected them to be deficient at lower frequencies. 


-------------
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links


Posted By: apr59
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2014 at 3:41pm
Hi All

This looks like a good place to start my first post.
I'm yet another Australian, I've been living in Brisbane for over thirty years. I too am about to venture into the world of Graham's Proprius mono's with a full set of interconnects and speaker cables.

My current system is a Stello CDT 100 transport, Calyx femto pre DAC and the modern version of the Quad II mono's with a pair of Green Mountain Audio Chroma two way monitors.

It's fair to say any new purchase is a leap of faith however I have heard some Graham's equipment before. Graham and his teem seem like very pragmatic hard working people upholding faith in their home grown product. This is a quality that seems to be sadly diminished in our easy to get society.
And if this purchase turns out to be one of my best decisions I've made audio wise I will be happy to tell you all. I will most likely follow that up by buying Graham's pre DAC.

Best regards to all Scotty


Posted By: Shaun the Sheep
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2014 at 5:26pm
Thanks Bob,

I think that sensitivity figure is about right - the Alpair driver is slightly less sensitive than the Fostex drivers used in the past. The Frugals are not as sensitive as some of the larger horn systems and need more than 'flea power' to drive them. At a conservative 26 watts, the Proprius is very well suited but I probably wouldn't go for a much lower-powered amp. As for bass, I was astonished when I first demoed a pair at Electric Beach. I honestly thought a sub-woofer was switched on somewhere (it wasn't). I'm not that technical but the Frugal design is, I believe, a hybrid horn/transmission-line arrangement that can benefit from corner loading, which is how I demoed them. Very impressive musical bass, tightly controlled and agile. At home we can't get them into a corner but have them close to the rear wall. The bass remains deep, tight and tuneful - very much in balance with the rest of the sound spectrum.

To compare the Proprius/Frugals with the 300 watt Quad/Tannoys is a bit like comparing (I'm a classic car buff) an original Lotus Elan with, say, an older Aston Martin or Bristol. Both are very classy, fast and satisfying in their own way, but one is nimble, responsive and small enough to enjoy just about anywhere. The other isn't. The difference between a true sports car and a GT. The Tannoys did bass in spades, but at the expense of a lot of living room real estate. The fact that the Frugals do great bass, probably a bit more musical and controlled, from a much smaller footprint, swung it for us as we start to downsize. And the Tannoys did 'honk' a bit and were quite directional. Don't get me wrong, we've had 10 years of happy Tannoy ownership and enjoyment, but things move on. Are the Frugals perfect, I doubt it, and they are probably not right for everyone, but I think they are worth checking out as a slightly left-field alternative. Oh, and the Tannoys were over £4k at list (ten years ago) while the Frugals are around £860 from Electric Beach depending on finish. The speakers can also be tailored and tuned to your exact requirements.




-------------
Shaun.


Posted By: tg
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2014 at 5:55pm

I agree with Bob, that is a nice write up Shaun and thank you for taking the time to post it.

Another member here has been involved with some DIY single driver speakers using an Alpair driver and powering it with Proprius amps.  Reportedly with very satisfactory results.

I have used single driver BLH for some years now and love them and the way they present the music.

Mine are a little more sensitive than yours though.



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Tony G


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2014 at 6:21pm
I have never heard a pair of horn speakers, but they "sound" like you are really enjoying them. It makes me tempted to try and get a listen.

-------------
Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2014 at 5:57pm
Thanks for the extra comments, Shaun. Those Frugal 3s seem exceptional value - I was expecting them to sell for at least £2,000. . . . 

-------------
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2014 at 9:44am
Originally posted by morris_minor morris_minor wrote:

Those Frugal 3s seem exceptional value - . . . . 

£280 for kit, including drivers, from Custom Cans in Cheltenham, might have just given me an idea for a combined Christmas and Birthday present for my son. He wants new speakers.

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2014 at 11:45am
I'm tempted to try a pair at £280.
I think the postage may be a tad expensive, so I may have to wait until next time I am in the UK and pop into Cheltenham. It's just up the road from my parents.

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Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 9:49am
Originally posted by CageyH CageyH wrote:

I'm tempted to try a pair at £280.
I think the postage may be a tad expensive, so I may have to wait until next time I am in the UK and pop into Cheltenham. It's just up the road from my parents.

When might you be in the UK. If you get them, I'd be interested in following your build if you were to share it on the forum.

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 10:07am
It's not likely to be before Christmas.

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Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 12:30pm
That's a shame.

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 12:40pm
They are a bit heavy for hand luggage, so I need to drive back.
It's 13 hours door to door.

There are plenty of DIY threads if you google FH3 build.

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Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 9:50pm
I am tempted too at £280 plus delivery.

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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

I am tempted too at £280 plus delivery.

Go on Jon! I want to know how someone else gets on before I do it.

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 11:34pm
I am very tempted to build a pair too


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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2014 at 11:52pm
Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:

I am very tempted to build a pair too

Go on Graham! I want to know how someone else gets on before I do it.
If you do, I might be able to collect and deliver for you. Sorry Jon, I don't get up to Middlesbrough.

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 4:41am
I e-mailed the shop, but there has been no response yet. I guess that they were away from work enjoying the bank holiday weekend
It was a normal work day here.

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Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 10:27pm
Still no feedback.

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Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 11:14pm
Originally posted by CageyH CageyH wrote:

Still no feedback.

I had also emailed them to ask whether I could pop by to hear the ones they have in the workshop. No reply! I sometimes wonder why some companies have websites and email addresses.

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 11:20pm
I'd try 'em on Facebook if you have an account.



Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2014 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by Chris Firth Chris Firth wrote:

I'd try 'em on Facebook if you have an account.


I think their price on Facebook is cheaper.

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2014 at 8:09am
Originally posted by ICL1P ICL1P wrote:

Originally posted by Chris Firth Chris Firth wrote:

I'd try 'em on Facebook if you have an account.


I think their price on Facebook is cheaper.

Drivers not included, explains the price difference.

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 6:38pm
I got a response today.
£55 P&P, but if I wait a bit, they think they can do it for £35.

Not a bad price considering the weight.

-------------
Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 7:46pm
I joined his Facebook group last night and this morning he had accepted me so I sent him a PM to say that there were unanswered messages in his inbox. He still hasn't responded to mine!

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 9:16pm
I'll be looking at buying and building one of these kits soon. That driver has a pretty good write up.



-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 9:21pm
So do the completed speakers.
From what I gphave read the Electric Beach speakers sound even better.

-------------
Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2014 at 9:24pm
Next Wednesday I have a long drive from Devon to Hull, which will take me past Cheltenham. I might pop in and see the guy enroute.

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2014 at 10:23am
Originally posted by CageyH CageyH wrote:

So do the completed speakers.
From what I gphave read the Electric Beach speakers sound even better.


The Electric Beach ones are a complete system with AMP, speaker and Cables so perhaps not quite the same, not sure if he will sell just the speakers.

Perhaps my misconception but at 85db surprisingly inefficient.




-------------
Steve

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Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2014 at 10:29am
I am pretty sure (based on an e-mail conversation) that he will sell just the speakers.
Steve confirmed the the Proprius amps wod work really well with them.

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Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2014 at 1:46pm
Mains Cables R Us have a pair of the Electric Beach speakers on sale for £650. Ex demo, I think.

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2014 at 2:10pm
Or £600, depending if you look at eBay or his website.
I e-mailed him about them, but no response.

They are not much cheaper than the Electric Beach ones without amps, which start around £720(ish) for the basic finish, up to the gloss black for about £860.

The gloss black finish look stunning.

-------------
Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: marshmid
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2014 at 3:23pm
Well spotted. The the price on MRUS website is £600. Shipping is £8.95.

I was tempted but the finish is in piano grey?
Gloss black would be my preference.

Marsh


Posted By: Shaun the Sheep
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2014 at 5:36pm
Hi, just back from a few days hols and caught up with the thread. I considered building a pair of Frugal 3s myself and then saw the Electric Beach finished product - no contest, especially at the price Steve Jay is charging. Still, a lot of fun having a go yourself - just cost in all the other bits and pieces you will need to make a finished product (like clamps, paint/veneer/stain etc unless plain ply is your thing). My pair are in a painted gloss metallic finish which matches the speaker cones, with a black leather baffle - sounds naff, looks stunning and definitely has the wife-approval-factor. Will try and post a picture but they are identical to the ones of the Electric Beach website.

The main thing from a Graham Slee point of view is they sound great with the Proprii (to my ageing ears). Someone noted the efficiency is a bit low and that is down to the Alpair driver, but it more than makes up for it in sound quality (check out any of the diy threads to get a more technical view). The Slee-Ps are more than powerful enough.


-------------
Shaun.


Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2014 at 11:03pm
so is this driver better than the Custom Cans supplied driver or are the the same?




-------------
Steve

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Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2014 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by ServerBaboon ServerBaboon wrote:

so is this driver better than the Custom Cans supplied driver?



Is it not the same driver?

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 1:17am
Originally posted by ServerBaboon ServerBaboon wrote:

so is this driver better than the Custom Cans supplied driver or are the the same?


Good question Steve...

I don't know from this topic what driver to expect if I go Ifor's route.

However, between two of the drivers cited as being suitable: the Fostex FE126e and Alpair 7 (hopefully Gen3?), there is an important difference in the total "Q" (Qts).

The FE126e has a Qts of 0.25

The Alpair has a QTS of 0.54

This has me concerned. I would not think it possible for such a different Qts to return the same performance.

This is what "Speakerplans.com" has to say about Qts...

"Qts can be thought of as how strong the motor and magnet system are. A driver with a low Qts of around 0.20 would have a large magnet and be able to move the cone with a lot of force. This makes for a tight driver. A driver with a Qts of 0.45 would have a smaller magnet and less control over its cone. So low values of Qts give a tight and punchy sound but with little weight or low bass and high Qts values give a slow and heavy sound that will give you lots of low frequency output. Watch out for drivers with really high Qts values of 0.6 or above, these would require such a big box to work correctly that in normal size boxes you don’t get much low end."

Therefore, with the Fostex FE126e I should get tight punchy bass without much low bass (I have that already using the LS3/5a).

With the Alpair Alp7 (Gen3) I should get a slow and heavy sound to the bass but lots of low frequency output. A slow heavy bass is something I abhor!

Remembering back some 25 years when I experimented in making my own bass reflex speaker, what I really wanted was a Qts of 0.3 to 0.35, but could not get a suitable drive unit. I decided to have a go anyway with a higher Qts but it all ended in frustration and a visit to the local tip!

It may be thought that the cabinet and stuffing can tweak these problems out but in my opinion, and for my ears, I have never found that to be.

Now, if somebody can point me in the direction of a 4" full range driver with a Qts of 0.3 to 0.35 I'll be willing to have a go.


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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 1:43am
Found one!

http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/drivers/ - http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/drivers/

Qts 0.355

And plan to build a cabinet for it that extends down to 27Hz...

http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/PDFs/Eikona_2_38_MLTL.pdf - http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/PDFs/Eikona_2_38_MLTL.pdf

Only £372 plus timber and labour!

I think I'll take a rain check on the Frugels...


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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Shaun the Sheep
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 6:53am
I looked at the Custom Cans kit about four months ago. At the time it didn't include anything other than the timber, although they were thinking about supplying the Alpair speaker (I don't know what the current price of £280 now includes). When I costed it all out, I reckoned the Electric Beach product was only twice the cost of me building a pair myself and the quality really is excellent. The EB price of c. £860 is for a finished pair of speakers and does not include amplification. Obviously, if you're building a pair from scratch, your first attempt will include all your mistakes and learning on the job.....

Saw Mr. Slee's comments about Qts and 'slow' bass from the Alpair 7. I am not technical and can only trust my (rapidly) ageing ears. The sound of the EB/Alpair 7 with the Proprius monoblocks was, for me, lovely and is the route I will pursue. However there is no perfect speaker and I guess the joy of our hobby is partly in the experimentation and tweaking. 

If you want to build something yourself and fancy a very low cost approach I found this: http://www.wildburroaudio.com/ An 8" speaker mounted in a 'folding' open-baffle enclosure made from a single sheet of ply. Once again, it comes well reviewed in different places and would probably cost around £150 to £200 even with sourcing the drivers from the USA. If you used a different/smaller driver from the UK, (and my lack of technical knowledge is no help here I'm afraid), you'd probably get the cost down even further!


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Shaun.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 9:18am
Shaun, do the Electric Beach speakers have removeable tops?

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 10:02am
Originally posted by ICL1P ICL1P wrote:

Originally posted by ServerBaboon ServerBaboon wrote:

so is this driver better than the Custom Cans supplied driver?



Is it not the same driver?

Did wonder that as so changed my question after I wrote it, confused as fostex keerps appearing here and there.



-------------
Steve

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Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is.


Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 10:24am
Originally posted by Shaun the Sheep Shaun the Sheep wrote:


Saw Mr. Slee's comments about Qts and 'slow' bass from the Alpair 7. I am not technical and can only trust my (rapidly) ageing ears. The sound of the EB/Alpair 7 with the Proprius monoblocks was, for me, lovely and is the route I will pursue. However there is no perfect speaker and I guess the joy of our hobby is partly in the experimentation and tweaking. 


A lot comes down to personal taste and sensitivities and your choice of music. Graham maybe likes a dryer tighter bass and sound and sounds like he is sensitive to it. I, while not liking slow bass will trade off a bit of this for more warmth and weight.

What music do you play? I have seen a frugal review which said not for rock, but the review for EB didn't really criticise it.




-------------
Steve

-------------

Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is.


Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 10:28am
....also it looks like the Electric Beach have a little more SWMBO appeal than the Jordan Cabinet.Wink






-------------
Steve

-------------

Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is.


Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 10:57am
Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:

Found one!

http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/drivers/ - http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/drivers/

Qts 0.355

And plan to build a cabinet for it that extends down to 27Hz...

http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/PDFs/Eikona_2_38_MLTL.pdf - http://www.ejjordan.co.uk/PDFs/Eikona_2_38_MLTL.pdf

Only £372 plus timber and labour!

I think I'll take a rain check on the Frugels...
Maybe a new Graham Slee product on the way?! Next up a streamer so we can have a totally 100% GSP system from source to speakers . . . 

[ . . was a that Squadron of Pork I just saw LOL]


-------------
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links


Posted By: Shaun the Sheep
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 11:49am
Thanks ServerBaboon. We listen to just about everything. Classic rock (Led Zep, The Who, Free etc.) to the very latest 'cutting edge' pop (courtesy of two teenage children). Was listening to Little Axe this morning (dub/blues/electronica - very deep bass) and will kick back this afternoon with a little Bach. As long as it isn't (c)Rap, we'll listen to it. We're all musicians - me for too many years to mention - and what we look for from the hi-fi is music, first and foremost. Yes, we like to be able to hear all the instruments, and for them to sound like instruments, and for there to be real clarity, depth and a sense of soundstage. But, and this is where some hi-fi loses the plot, we like emotion. Music is an emotional experience and I want to cry when du Pre plays Elgar's cello concerto or get the urge to dance when Earth, Wind and Fire hit the groove (much to the children's embarrassment!) I don't really want to listen to the hi-fi, I want to hear the music. The Frugals seem to give us that - they just get out of the way of the music. Rock has the required visceral punch and excitement, while Alison Krauss or the Wailin' Jenny's project the delicacy and harmonies of the female voice, not to mention the outstanding musicianship. Nice.

-------------
Shaun.


Posted By: marshmid
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 12:21pm
Re: E J Jordan Designs. Some useful info. under the 'Resources' tab of their web site

Kits of parts in various and stages of completion and finishes are available from Wilmslow Audio. I bought from them about 40 years ago so good to see a survivor in the British Hi-Fi industry. NB.They are now based in Leicester rather than Wilmslow.

Unfortunately they don't do a kit for the MTL design but do for the VTL & Reflex designs.

I'll await Graham's review of his speaker kit!!

I agree with 'Shaun the Sheep' that the Electric Beach product looks reasonable value compared with flat pack veneered kits.


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by ServerBaboon ServerBaboon wrote:

A lot comes down to personal taste and sensitivities and your choice of music. Graham maybe likes a dryer tighter bass and sound and sounds like he is sensitive to it. I, while not liking slow bass will trade off a bit of this for more warmth and weight.

What music do you play? I have seen a frugal review which said not for rock, but the review for EB didn't really criticise it.




I think you have underlined a fundamental flaw with reviews.
I personally disregard them unless I know the person who has done the reviewing, so that's 99.9999999% of all the reviews that get published Shocked
All a review does is get something onto my radar.

If I have heard someone's system and it floats my boat then their comments about sound quality carry much more weight than any review can ever hope to achieve.

I thought that the sounds coming out of the GSP Audio room were amongst the best at Cranage Hall earlier this year, so Graham's stuff, and more importantly Graham's opinions hold more weight for me than others.
If Graham thinks something sounds superb then I take that at face value and don't question it.

There was another company at Cranage Hall that were using relatively small Tannoy dual concentric speakers, and their stuff sounded great too.

Another exhibitor had equipment made by a Scottish company from somewhere near to Glasgow, and I think I lasted about 20 seconds before clearing out the door ....

What does this have to do with the Frugel Horn thing?

I have a set of FH3 speakers, and they are really good.
I play a great deal of Rock music, and I've never found them lacking for grunt or speed either.
The drive units in mine are MarkAudio, but they're paper cones, not the spun metal ones that others seem to like.
The paper cones are a bit lacking in the presence stakes, so they're run with a silk dome tweeter that can reach frequencies miles above my hearing capabilities - this tweeter is used with a 1st order high pass filter, with a corner frequency of 13.5KHz, and this tightened the sound up no end, and had quite a profound and beneficial effect in the bass too.

For some reason I have not been able to put a finger on I have not been totally convinced with using a single spun metal coned driver, such as the Alpair7.
I've always found them a touch uninvolving.
I will add that the speakers I've heard using Alpair7 drivers have not had a few thousand hours running, so this may change over time.

The one thing I will stress though is that this is only my opinion - unless you know me well you won't know what my tastes or how good or bad my system sounds to you.




Posted By: Shaun the Sheep
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 12:47pm
Sorry, Ifor, missed your question. No, the Electric Beach Frugal 3s don't have removable tops. You can take the drivers out and adjust the wadding for fine tuning. Also the Mark Audio Alpair 7.3 drivers have two magnets at the back. I believe you can easily remove the outer magnet for a modest change in sound and sensitivity, or if you are using the driver in a shallower cabinet. Hope that helps.

-------------
Shaun.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 1:30pm
I'm pleased Chris chipped in when he did. In particular the comment about the addition of the silk domed tweeter and the difference that made.

I have sat here many a hour tweaking RIAA curves on a simulator and have noted how the slightest of changes to one time constant can affect the overall response curve (and resulting sound) - a bit like tweaking a bezier curve if you've ever had that pleasure in computer graphics...

Therefore it may be possible to counter a problem such as the "wrong" Qts (note the word wrong is in quote marks - it may not be wrong in the listening), by tweaking elsewhere.

I am just wondering if I really need to go down this speaker path right now as it would probably become a big diversion preventing me doing what I need to do in the very little of the precious time I seem to have these days?


-------------
Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 1:52pm
Maybe I wrongly got the impression you were looking at speakers for pleasure rather than as a business proposition Graham. You deserve time off to enjoy music as a hobby like the rest of us - we all know how hard you work

On the other hand, I bet your electronics skills could produce an incredible powered subwoofer Wink


-------------
Older than I once was, younger than I'll be
.............................
Andrew


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by Drewan77 Drewan77 wrote:

Maybe I wrongly got the impression you were looking at speakers for pleasure rather than as a business proposition Graham. You deserve time off to enjoy music as a hobby like the rest of us - we all know how hard you work

On the other hand, I bet your electronics skills could produce an incredible powered subwoofer Wink


I think Bob excitedly gave the impression they were for a business proposition. I know Bob seriously wants to push me forward on absolutely everything and I am very grateful for that.

However, a product takes an age to perfect. Ultimately there may be - one day - a complete Slee high fidelity range, but for the time being I'm looking for a speaker to better the LS3/5a in terms of bass extension and a bit more overall oomph.

As it is a pleasure designing audio equipment that boldly goes where no manufacturer has gone before, the eventual purchase could be viewed as being a purchase for pleasure.


-------------
Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 8:02pm
Graham,

I'd recommend the PMC Twenty 21 or 22 or the KEF LS50 . I've just had a look at what the new price of Sterling LS3/5a are, after hearing them at Cranage it was a surprise (in a bad way).

-------------
Solo ULDE, CuSat50, Spatia Links


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by Shaun the Sheep Shaun the Sheep wrote:

Sorry, Ifor, missed your question. No, the Electric Beach Frugal 3s don't have removable tops. You can take the drivers out and adjust the wadding for fine tuning. Also the Mark Audio Alpair 7.3 drivers have two magnets at the back. I believe you can easily remove the outer magnet for a modest change in sound and sensitivity, or if you are using the driver in a shallower cabinet. Hope that helps.

Thanks Shaun. Access to adjust the damping is the one thing that worries me about given the custom cans kits a go. Removing the driver to play about seems a bit of a faff.

-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 10:19pm
Shaun, Chris's I have seen that the Frugals have been designed for or at least cope with corner placement where do you have yours?




-------------
Steve

-------------

Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is.


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2014 at 11:06pm
Mine are close up to a supporting wall.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2014 at 9:08pm
The preceding discussion highlights two things:
1) specs are helpful but your ears should decide - try hi-fi at home if possible
2) even then, fine-tuning the speaker and listening position gets the best sound



-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Shaun the Sheep
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 9:44pm
My understanding is that the Frugal 3 is designed to be corner-loaded. I demoed them at Electric Beach with the rear of the speakers pointing into corners and the sound was excellent with strong bass. Here at home the room layout means we can't push them into a corner but we have them close to the rear wall. The design of the speaker is such that the horn mouth/port can't be any closer than 10 inches to the wall. The sound remains excellent in this position and, to be honest, I can't detect any loss of bass or constriction of the mid-range. Having experimented a bit they seem very tolerant of positioning. Steve Jay at Electric Beach recommends putting the speakers on a granite or slate plinth - we had some slate plinths left over from a previous hi-fi set up and our speakers are stood on these using several small neoprene/sorbothane strips on the bottom.

-------------
Shaun.


Posted By: Shaun the Sheep
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 9:48pm
I agree Ifor. Getting the amount of stuffing right can only be a matter of trial and error. Another reason why I finally decided to go down the Electric Beach route rather than build my own. They've built enough to know how to fine tune things.

-------------
Shaun.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 10:10pm
I popped into Custom Cans today, but unfortunately the boss was out. There where two builds in progress as well as their finished workshop pair. The guy I spoke to said he had built a few, but I didn't get the feeling he really understood the stuffing. He said one doesn't put any stuffing below the driver, but that doesn't agree with what the designers say in the plans and in the DIY Audio forum. It seems that what goes in the V is the same for all drivers, but what goes below the driver is both driver and room dependent. The other confusing thing is that different countries seem to have different stuffing materials available. I'm trying to find out what other UK DIYers use. It would be a bit cheeky to ask Electric Beach.

-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Shaun the Sheep
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 10:27pm
Ifor, I can tell you what is in my pair! Steve at Electric Beach took a driver out to show me how easy it was and I don't think I'm giving any secrets away. There is a net about halfway down the front void and this is lightly filled to just below the driver with a white wool material (seems to be slightly denser than cotton wool.) The panel behind the driver is covered in grey acoustic felt, about 1/2 inch thick. I couldn't see how far down the panel it goes, nor how much of the top and the rear void is covered but the Frugal Horn plans (www.frugal-horn.com) should give you a good idea.

-------------
Shaun.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 10:35pm
Thanks Shaun. It's just the front bit I need guidance on, I think.

-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 10:42pm
Ifor, " http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/speaker_design_pt3_getstuffed_e.html - Get Stuffed " (an article over at TNT Audio)

Different weights of suitable material sells at http://www.dunelm-mill.com/shop/270g-wadding-material-51553 - Dunelm Mill (it looks the same to me...)

There's also http://www.dunelm-mill.com/shop/hollowfibre-filling-47406 - Hollow-Fibre


-------------
Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 10:45pm
FWIW this fits with the transmission lines I have seen over the years, a long folded tunnel filled with lambs wool or a fibre-based acoustic wadding.



-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2014 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:

Ifor, " http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/speaker_design_pt3_getstuffed_e.html - Get Stuffed " (an article over at TNT Audio)

Different weights of suitable material sells at http://www.dunelm-mill.com/shop/270g-wadding-material-51553 - Dunelm Mill (it looks the same to me...)

There's also http://www.dunelm-mill.com/shop/hollowfibre-filling-47406 - Hollow-Fibre

Thanks. Eventually I hope to be able to tell how I got on with the project, but it won't start before mid December.

-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2014 at 3:06pm
I may ask a carpenter nearby to knock some up.
Out of interest, I see on the price list that Spatia is available for speaker rewire.
This would be just the job to connect the Proprius amps directly to the drive units.

-------------
Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2014 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by Chris Firth Chris Firth wrote:

Mine are close up to a supporting wall.

Chris, I note that your hometown is the same as Toppsy's. I believe Toppsy used to mane FH3 flat packs. Do you know if he still does?

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2014 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by ICL1P ICL1P wrote:

Chris, I note that your hometown is the same as Toppsy's. I believe Toppsy used to mane FH3 flat packs. Do you know if he still does?


We live about 6 miles apart.
I'm at one end of a valley, he's up at t'other end.

AFAIK he's stopped making kits for the FH3, but I can always ask the question.
He still builds speakers, and works quite closely with Scottmoose (who designed the FH3).


Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2014 at 1:27pm
I have just spoken with Toppsy, and I was correct about him not doing kits.
He will build complete FH3 speakers if requested.



Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2014 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by Chris Firth Chris Firth wrote:

I have just spoken with Toppsy, and I was correct about him not doing kits.
He will build complete FH3 speakers if requested.


Thanks for asking Chris. I'll stick with a Custom Cans kit rather than the full Monty.

-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 7:54am





-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 9:36am
Ifor,

I shall be watching this closely. I'll be interested to hear about how the build goes, and how you find the quality of the kit.
This is still a project I am thinking about for the new year.


-------------
Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 10:04am
A promising start, the ply looks to be good quality and well machined. I shall be very interested in your impressions of the sound. I understand that the Alpairs take some considerable running in, have you considered "breaking" them in beforehand, or would that be difficult to keep a secret from "the boy"?


-------------
Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2014 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by BackinBlack BackinBlack wrote:

have you considered "breaking" them in beforehand, or would that be difficult to keep a secret from "the boy"?
No I hadn't.  It shouldn't take us long to finish the construction so they can run in while he decides how he wants to finish them.  These aren't a secret because his birthday was last week.


-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2014 at 9:12pm
Not enough clamps.





-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2014 at 10:38pm
Now there's an incentive to finish the cabinets. No beer 'til it's done!


-------------
Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2014 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by BackinBlack BackinBlack wrote:

Now there's an incentive to finish the cabinets. No beer 'til it's done!

It's cider made from the apples on one of our three trees. I don't drink the stuff; I made it for the girl. It's beer for me.

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Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2014 at 10:50pm
Cider, from your own apples. Sounds good to me. Glad to her ther's no denial of beer then.


-------------
Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2014 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by BackinBlack BackinBlack wrote:

Glad to her ther's no denial of beer then.

There's a row of seven homebrew kegs in the cellar.

-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Aussie Mick
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2014 at 5:22am
Originally posted by ICL1P ICL1P wrote:

Originally posted by BackinBlack BackinBlack wrote:

Glad to her ther's no denial of beer then.

There's a row of seven homebrew kegs in the cellar.


We really need a "like" button on this forum...

-------------
Rega RP8/Ortofon 2M Black/Rega Apheta 2 - Reflex M/Elevator EXP - C.E.C. TL5 CD Transport - MacBook Pro/Roon - Majestic DAC - Solo ULDE (Focal Elear) - Proprius - PMC Twenty5.22


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2014 at 6:39am
Pi computer audio expert, loudspeaker builder, electronics kit builder, and mass-production brewer too!

All he has to do now is to train the kids... frightening! Wink


-------------
Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2014 at 12:14pm
I'm impressed too, and also tempted to build one of those speaker kits myself.


-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 3:42pm
Any news Ifor?

-------------
Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 4:31pm
We are waiting for some glue to dry at present and the boy is being distracted by ladies darts on the TV!

I was hoping they'd be finished today apart from tarting up the cabinets, but I think it'll be tomorrow at the earliest.

Boozing got in the way over Christmas so the "new" SL-DL1 TT and Genera haven't seen action yet. The girl, on the other hand, loved her SL-DL1 and it was well used while she was here over Christmas. I've agreed to deliver it to her in London on the 25th which means I can sample the heaven of the Southampton Arms again.

-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by ICL1P ICL1P wrote:

the "new" SL-DL1 TT and Genera haven't seen action yet.

I could be wrong, I hear music from upstairs.

-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2015 at 6:01pm
Ah, domestic bliss!

-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2015 at 7:34pm


-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2015 at 10:04pm
It's already looking good!

-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2015 at 10:33pm
Looking good indeed and soon to be sounding good? Remember they are reckoned to take some time to break in, 200 hours at low volume is recommended!


-------------
Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2015 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

It's already looking good!

They would have been finished before Christmas if I were doing the build on my tod. They are very easy to put together, but there are one or to things I would do differently if I were to do it again.

-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2015 at 11:04pm
Plenty of electromechanical use and plenty of room space is what something like this needs to excel. Oh, and Proprius monoblocks; they're the boss. Smile


Posted By: marshmid
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2015 at 9:43am
Ifor,

When they are finished, I'm sure there are some (me for one) on this forum who would appreciate some tips on construction and your opinion on their performance.
It might just give us the courage to have a go.

Marsh


Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2015 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by ICL1P ICL1P wrote:

Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

It's already looking good!

They would have been finished before Christmas if I were doing the build on my tod. They are very easy to put together, but there are one or to things I would do differently if I were to do it again.


I would also be interested in knowing what you would do differently.

-------------
Kevin

European loan coordinator


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2015 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by marshmid marshmid wrote:

Ifor,

When they are finished, I'm sure there are some (me for one) on this forum who would appreciate some tips on construction and your opinion on their performance.
It might just give us the courage to have a go.

Marsh

Tips on the build I will indeed give, but rest assured if building from a Custom Cans kit you cannot go wrong. It is very, very easy. I don't know how much I'm going to get to hear them. I suspect they'll go upstairs as soon as they are working and "the boy's" bedroom is pretty much a no go area. I'm hoping to pursuade him to leave them beside my Spendor A5s for a while so we can all listen to them as they develop, but I'm not sure I'll be successful.

-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2015 at 10:17pm
It is a wonderful gift and you've obviously enjoyed constructing them.

-------------
Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2015 at 10:27pm
This thread should probably be chopped in two and the latter part of it shifted out of the Amplification section.

-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2015 at 8:05am
This is the second speaker. We decided to put the stuffing in from the bottom, rather than from the top, before we glued the bottom in place.

I picked up the hook and net idea from the FH3 build thread on diyaudio.com.




Music!


-------------
Ifor
=====
Reflex M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.



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