Super Voyager
Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Headphone Audio
Forum Name: Portable Headphone User
Forum Description: Technical Q&A, hints and tips
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2074
Printed Date: 20 Apr 2024 at 4:10am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Super Voyager
Posted By: Graham Slee
Subject: Super Voyager
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 6:24pm
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Suggested in response to my latest newsletter, a Super Voyager... Suggested features are:
I'd like to ask what members think about the existing contour switch - would it be necessary? Also, what about USB in? There are limitations as to how much can be shoehorned into a small case and still sound good. I also want to make it a battery only device because the existing three power options don't lend themselves to point source optimisation. Rechargeable would make that more viable I guess? My other thoughts were to offer a Super Voyager options menu to pick from:
Your thoughts? Graham ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Replies:
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 6:35pm
Sounds interesting. I'm all ears, even though I've just bought a Voyager.  ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 7:19pm
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I'm a very minimalistic person so I would suggest bare minimum features for smallest physical size but enough content to make digital audio sound spectacular. 1 Line-in, 1 headphone out, 1 USB-in for recharging internal (fixed) rechargable battery from both computer USB port and from mains-USB port wall adapter. This obviously gives the option to power the amp from USB as well. Aluminium case sounds good. Not sure about the need for the contour switch. Maybe include a headphone out adapter plug (Bitzie style adapter) that converts the one 3.5mm jack socket into two so that two headphones can be driven (you and a friend can listen simultaneously). Keep a volume pot that still permits use of full rotation. Reckon you could go smaller than a Bitzie? You are very intelligent when it comes to circuit board design Graham... Hang on, let me think some more about this... ............................. Basically, minimal/no compromises to sound quality and as small as possible.  As long as it sounds amazing with both IEMs like ER-4S and with high resolution full-size such as HD250 and HD800, it'll be ideal. Just needs your core circuit configurations and nothing else. Double sided PCB or is this a compromise, in your experience?Only need a USB socket for power options. No need for any other power connections. ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: jamescodway
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 7:30pm
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I see indicative evidence that many manufacturers general view of the consumer in this market is that they 'want it all'... and then compromise on quality :-( Graham, I would be surprised if we saw you take that view! I'm sure a do it all super rechargeable Voyager/Bitzie hybrid thingy would be great if the price were right but for my situation unlikely to open my wallet, even at a price as low as say £250. At home, my 1G voyager is great for washing up (or in the bath!) with some lightweight cans or IEMs. Out and about... well pretty much the same. I use a, ahem, 5G iPod classic with a basic LOD and DIY cable. With HD25 or SRH 940, this produces very satisfying results. The battery life is, frankly, already amazing and I can think of only 2 directions to increase appeal. 1. Improve headphone-driving performance with higher impedance and Grados. 2. Include a quality DAC that would make the most of the source. For most practical purposes, #2 is of more value as I'm happy-ish with my out and about can options (though improved performance with HD250 and DT 250-250 would be 'nice'). The debate about the commercial viability of Apple connectivity that would work 'out and about' has already been discussed at some length. For reference, I have not yet acquired a Bitzie though if I did not already have multiple DACs and headamps, I would have been a prime prospect! If I were to ever be away from home for a prolonged period, I would probably buy one to go with my MacBook, Audirvana (excellent!) and some combination of HD800/650/250. I hope this is a useful example of customer attitude and behaviour. Best James ------------- Voyager - HD25 |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 8:22pm
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It's good to hear your thoughts and I'll never be put off by any reasonable suggestion - better to make things how people want them to be. Please to others - keep your thoughts coming. Graham ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: discrete badger
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 8:43pm
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My feeling is it kind of blurs the lines between voyager and bitzie. Maybe that's a good thing? Suppose you could see it as a bitzie powered from battery rather than USB, and an additional line in? The battery power making higher SQ possible? Wouldn't be expecting months of runtime (a la voyager) though with the power demands of the digital side. The unit would really only make sense as portable because you'd want to somehow get mains power to it if it were fixed. Comparatively, the bitzie does make sense as a stationary unit because it's laptop powered. It also makes sense portably too, running off a tablet. Comparatively, the current voyager also makes sense stationary too with its USB or wall wart power. I would likely be a buyer if it had optical in - as my portable DAP has optical out - but there is probably only a very limited market for a portable optical in, not enough to return the additional development/production costs.
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Posted By: BAK
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 8:45pm
A Super Voyager options menu to pick from sounds good.
Is USB input realy needed? Wouldn't that require a DAC?
I like your Suggested features:
what members think about the existing contour switch - would it be necessary? Bruce ------------- Bruce AT-14SA, Pickering XV-15, Hana EL, Technics SL-1600MK2, Lautus, Majestic DAC, Technics SH-8055 spectrum analyzer, Eminence Beta8A custom cabs; Proprius & Reflex M or C, Enjoy Life your way! |
Graham Slee wrote:Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 9:08pm
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I think the unit should be as simple as possible. No convoluted features to make them compatible with every single headphone, especially those that do not perform well with Graham's standard amplifier configurations. Graham, pretend you have an mp3 player containing all WAV files and that the output of this player is very pure (low incidence of sound artifacts) but does not have anywhere near the amount of voltage swing needed to drive your reference HD250II to full (almost full) potential. You'd design an amplifier with a line-in to receive the signal to be amplified, a line-out to your HD250II, a headphone-out adapter plug in case you and say John C both want to plug in your HD250IIs to the amplifier. Power supply is a fixed rechargable battery, recharged via USB only, by either computer or wall adapter. Amplifier uses superior analogue output stage and uses ultra-linear technique. No contour switch or tone controls; if the attached transducer is frequency skewed crap, it's crap, full stop and the user should select a higher fidelity transducer to pair with it.  As long as it sounds amazing with your major reference headphones, that's all that matters (in my narrow-minded opinion  ). Metal case for heatsinking?Not sure if you should get into DACs with this one. There are many devices where you can't bypass the default analogue domain to obtain a digital output/input anyway. Basically Graham, what is the minimum you need to manipulate any analogue output to make a HD250 perform at its best? ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: jamescodway
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2013 at 11:13pm
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PS I haven't used the contour switch in 5 years. Plastic case is fine for me… durable, lightweight, lower (?) cost. Best James ------------- Voyager - HD25 |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2013 at 9:46am
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The Voyager is not something I actually have a need for, but just a thought about the case. We all know that external looks are incidental to a unit's performance, and maybe a Voyager will never be a high-volume seller (in a Richer Sounds-type context), but a sleek metal case to complement the latest smartphone styling would, IMO, do no harm to sales providing it didn't up the price too much. If we're talking about another model to go alongside the existing one, with more features/better performance, a visual distinction may aid the perceived "value". Or I could be talking cobblers! ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2013 at 10:53am
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I like the current plastic case! However, I would make it rechargeable with a line input and smaller if possible. ------------- Miguel |
Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2013 at 1:21pm
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USB/LINE in to give me the option of my walkman and an OTG capable phone or media player. Battery Power would be useful to keep my phone breathing, I suppose rechargable would be nice andif I am using my Sony Walkman MP3 player. I guess it would blur the lines between the Voyager and the Bitzie but for me the standalone power and line in mean that the voyager type is more useful to me. ------------- Steve ------------- Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2013 at 4:10pm
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Regarding rechargeable batteries, the regulations I recently saw, state they must be user removable/replaceable. That places certain limitations on design. To be replaceable by a user implies that no (de)soldering or mechanical work would have to be done. Therefore an accessible battery compartment must be provided. As we are not mass producers it is not possible to make an intricate battery door and contact arrangement because we don't have the advantage of "the economies of scale", so we are either confined to a case that has a battery compartment or to a case of suitable size to be able to take a component battery compartment. High impedance headphones require a relatively large voltage swing to deliver reasonably high volume. It would be nice to have the same voltage supply as say a Novo to cater for such a voltage swing, however, that would require the equivalent of two 9 volt batteries. The alternative is to have just one 9 volt battery and use what is called rail-to-rail techniques to utilize virtually all the 9 volt supply into the headphones. In actual fact, the maximum r.m.s. voltage a 9 volt battery can deliver is around 3 volts. A stretched 'Bitzie' case say, 120mm long, may well be sufficient, but that is the opposite of a smaller case. Looking back at the volume available from a battery supply - the products that use two AA or AAA batteries only have a 3 volt supply. They may take up less space but can only deliver a r.m.s. voltage of around 1 volt using rail-rail techniques, and that will be insufficient for headphones much above 64 Ohms. ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Task1
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2013 at 10:15pm
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"Regarding rechargeable batteries, the regulations I recently saw, state they must be user removable/replaceable." Apple iPhone, ipod, ipad? Macbook air? No removable batteries in these. Filo headphone amps also made with unremovable rechargeable batteries. Are these new 'Safe Britain' regulations ( it wouldn't surprise me!) Agree with most though- simple is better, no need for a DAC. For me line in, headphone out would be fine. would also need to be shielded from phone interference when using with mobile rather than music player. Keep up the good work. ------------- Does it really matter? |
Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2013 at 11:02pm
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Fair point Task, my phone has non removable battery, but maybe it needs more safety testing which is expensive. ------------- Steve ------------- Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2013 at 6:59am
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Phone manufacturers may think they're above the law - possibly because they are multi-billion dollar companies like the Banks... and not even Genghis Khan could stand in their way! However, when it comes to other battery powered products like cameras - in my experience they often comply. In answer 2.7 here: http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/batteries/pdf/questions_answers_directive.pdf - http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/batteries/pdf/questions_answers_directive.pdf you can judge for yourself. But not being able to fight a multi-million dollar law suit with the European Union I simply have to comply! Back to headphone amplification and the difficulty is in driving your high impedance headphones... Or I should say, pleasing both high impedance and low impedance headphone users at the same time. These are the options: Big battery - big box - high performance --- or --- little battery - small box - poor performance (and low volume on high impedance headphones). So just like most phones you get poor audio performance, and that's the reason you look toward a separate headphone amp. How to make a portable headphone amp small? Answer: fill it full of charge pump ICs or switching mode converters to make use of a low voltage battery. Result: poor sound. How to make a portable headphone amp sound good? Answer: it needs a good power supply. Voyager MK1 uses a 9V battery. I will be grateful for your further thoughts in designing this product for you. ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: franklin
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 11:45am
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How about a sd card player ? There are many sd card / usb finger device with speakers and dead cheap. There must be some new IC around ?? |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 1:02pm
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A portable unit containing two rechargable 9V batteries? I would never want to sacrifice sound quality for smaller size. ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 2:31pm
Should give you good long term Battery life   ------------- Steve ------------- Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is. |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 3:02pm
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We could ask for a wind-up (crank) Voyager... ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 3:02pm
I'm afraid not. Most of these devices carry a 144 pin dedicated chip or otherwise some form of PIC, and are only made cheaply in one place on earth...
I can assure you it will be 'industrial' but maybe not that industrial. ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2013 at 10:51am
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How about using a chip that needs low power like the AD8656? ------------- Miguel |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2013 at 4:04pm
I thought "why not" and immediately went on Analogue Devices website to take a further look... It was then I noticed 2.7V to 5.5V operation  But I need over 9V to get my 3V r.m.s. output swing. Drat! Graham ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2013 at 10:44am
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Would a buffer output stage help? Like the BB BUF634. ------------- Miguel |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2013 at 4:47pm
Still need the volts to drive the buffer. ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: highfell
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2013 at 11:17pm
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Can I ask what us the Op Amp currently used in the voyager ? BTW on my wish list would be to use an Op Amp that is less susceptible to mobile phone interference - what about an OP Amp like the OPA627 ? Cheers |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2013 at 6:21pm
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Sorry, we don't give away circuit details - I have had to work hard on all my designs and it would be a bit stupid of me to throw away my career, business and source of income by publishing things like that (hope you realise). Your other request has been dealt with before at the owners' club - due to the way the op-amp receives its DC bias other op-amps will not work. It isn't the op-amp that is susceptible to interference - they are all susceptible unless stabilized by an external capacitor and that is chosen from the 'noise gain' of a particular circuit and its closure frequency. In addition to that I use an input capacitor to filter radio frequency interference. It makes me wonder if the input cable you're using is effectively screened? As far as case screening goes on the Voyager, that could be improved upon and this being a topic about the 'Super Voyager', you will find that will use a metal case. Also the OPA627 output voltage swing would be insufficient to drive many headphones on a 9V supply. I'd prefer it if members would refer problems they have directly to us instead of airing them here! On other manufacturer forums such things get wiped. Graham ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: highfell
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2013 at 8:45pm
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Hi Graham I wasn't seeking to cause any problems. My comments were meant to be constructive not destructive. I have widened by portable headphone amp selection (still use & love yours though) but the other one has less interference and it uses the OPA 627. I am aware that certain OPamps are more susceptible to interference than others, hence my suggestion. I can only write as I find. In terms of suggestions for your new Super Voyager, which does excite me. My suggestions are listed below : 1. Metal case essential - aesthetics are important to buyers. And if it reduces interference as well all well and good. 2. USB in yes - use it to charge the rechargeable battery but also as a USB into a DAC. Yes my view is that you want to add a DAC so people can use usb out on their music devices, ie the Super Voyager is am AMP with a DAC. 3. Analogue input 3.5mm 4. 2 outputs - one amplified, the other line out. 5. Worry less about battery life. If you can make 12 to 15 hours you will be 'in the mix' with your competitors From reading various hifi forums, people seem to worry about the look of their 'rigs', audio quality but they also like flexibility with differing inputs & outputs, plus the (Multi) functionality of their devices. I realise you will need to balance audio quality versus multi functionality. Hope this helps |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2013 at 8:23am
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Thank you for your suggestions highfell - they are welcomed and useful. The OPA 627 op-amp uses common base bi-polar transistors which do not have what is called "miller effect" and that may help in it not detecting as much RF. The Voyager op-amp is J-FET and is much the same in that respect, except that I need to have around 3V r.m.s. to drive the range of headphones people will use, and the OPA 627 would do a little less at 2V r.m.s. which could make it less attractive to the many customers who choose the Voyager to drive high impedance headphones. ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2013 at 10:13am
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Correcting my mistake above, the OPA627 is J-FET input and not bi-polar. So let's take a deeper look into the op-amps voltage amplifier stages...  Fig.1 OPA627 voltage amp stage  Fig.2 Op-amp voltage amp stage as used in Voyager Here we need to look at the drain/gate capacitance. What is a drain? Look at the terminal of J1 in the fig.2 that connects to R42 - that is a J-FET drain. What is a gate? Look at the dot on the terminal of J1 (same picture). OK, you see no capacitor symbol. The capacitance is intrinsic that's why. Look at the same terminals in the OPA627 diagram, fig.1 (look at the bit labelled +in 3). A capacitance exists between those terminals too. The drain load in fig.2 is R42 with top end connected to positive supply. Signal applied to the gate causes the drain to swing in the opposite direction. The amount of signal gain determines how much the intrinsic or parasitic capacitance becomes - this is called miller capacitance. A large amount of gain results in a large miller capacitance and that causes instability which in turn causes radio detection. So how much gain has the J-FET in fig.2? If you look at the voltage reference to the top right in fig.2 you see "VBE +0.3V". VBE is 'consumed' by Q61 leaving 0.3V. J-FETs don't have as much gain as biploar transistors - and that results in something near to 20 x the drain load voltage which is 6, or possibly less. The frequency of instability should be much greater than the op-amp bandwidth one would think, and by compensating the op-amp for its noise gain within its bandwidth it should be well out of the way? Looking at fig.1 OPA627 will there be any voltage gain at the drain? It can be seen that the drain operates into a common base transistor. A common base transistor has no miller capacitance so that can be discounted. However, there is a fixed base emitter capacitance so at some high frequency the drain resistor will see a fixed supply, and that will result in the J-FET having miller capacitance. Somewhere within that transition there will be the possibility of oscillation (instability) and radio detection. But here again, the frequency of instability should be much greater than the op-amp bandwidth. So, for me, that begs the question of who exactly said that some op-amps are more susceptible to interference than others? Maybe a uA741 is, but just because we're a non-American small manufacturer doesn't mean we know diddly squat! (as most other forums love to peddle!) ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: highfell
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2013 at 11:32am
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Hi Graham I will try and understand your technical post -:) I am no expert - as you can probably tell, but I am enjoying trying to learn the science behind the art and to ignore bull sh*t and marketing spiel on the various forums. As regards the comments about interference actually they were taken from commentary from a technical designer of portable headphone Amps around the pros and cons of rolling different Op amps, pasted below which first drew my attention to susceptibility of different devices. As an aside, the OP627 is noted as having a proprietary input stage called a Difet - yeah that doesn't mean much to me -:) "Traits of a good op-amp : As an amplifier designer, there are a few key electrical traits I look for when selecting op-amps for a portable amplifier. It should have low output noise, it should be able to drive sufficient output power to a wide range of headphones with low distortion, and it should be able to do these things while drawing minimal power from the power supply. The goal is to have a "transparent" amplifier which faithfully reproduces the input signal without adding anything of its own. Because we are talking about a battery-powered amplifier, we also want to minimize the total power consumption. The Analog Devices AD8610 was originally my standard op-amp for both Amp. It excels in all the key electrical traits, and it is well-known in the hi-fi headphone amp community. A few years ago Texas Instruments released the OPA209. It also performs very well, and it even beats out the AD8610 in some measurements. I began using it as my standard op-amp and it really seems to be gaining some fans. In addition to the AD8610 and OPA209, I also added a few more popular op-amps to the list, such as the OPA627 and AD797. Both of these parts have large numbers of fans in the hi-fi community. Using these op-amps requires accepting some trade-offs, such as higher power consumption. Interference - The pitfall of portable audio : While the OPA209 has some great characteristics for portable audio, it turns out it also has a weakness: susceptibility to interference from GSM phones and other mobile devices. Many op-amps have this problem. You've probably heard the result: it's the buzzing or clicking sound that occurs when a mobile device is placed near an amplifier or speakerphone or some other type of amplified audio device. The OPA209 uses a type of transistor called BJT which is particularly susceptible to this type of interference. Op-amps which use JFET transistors, such as the AD8610, are much less susceptible to the interference. The OPA627 has a proprietary input stage called "Difet" which is similar to JFET, so it also has relativity low susceptibility." BTW Another thing to consider with the Super Voyager is that Hifi Adicts like to try different equipment or combinations all the time and therefore the ability to roll Op Amps is some thing that they might like to do as well. Cheers Nigel |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2013 at 12:31pm
I aspire to produce equipment for the music listener rather than for Hifi Addicts who will never be satisfied with anything because it is their pastime to try as many things as possible and argue about it on forums. In saying the above I'm not trying to be awkward nor do I want to sound arrogant - I know I will never please all the people all of the time. It would be good if some of these hi-fi addicts would properly learn about audio electronics and settle down to making great sounding products for those who simply want to listen and not fiddle about, for when people like me cease to exist... when its gone its gone. As for what the designer wrote I would give him 5 out of 10. What is a Di-Fet? Di- is interchangeable with Bi- meaning dual, but in an op-amp Bi-FET is used to properly describe the combination of bipolar and FET transistors. Looking at the diagrams it can be seen that both op-amps are bipolar and FET combinations. Both have FET inputs - both inputs then drive a folded cascode bipolar transistor voltage amplifier stage. As a designer I also look at the 'traits' - that's what designers do! So by his own argument the op-amp used in the Voyager has the same susceptibility to interference as the OPA627. That should be the end of the story but I'm sure it won't. ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: less
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2013 at 12:49pm
I think Nigel, that we should draw a distinction between those of us who regard Hi-Fi as the enjoyment of listening to Music with the highest possible fidelity viv a vis a live performance, and those who prefer to tweak and listen to the Equipment. I am not suggesting for a moment that there is anything wrong with latter. It is just that Graham has a level of knowledge, understanding and experience that the vast majority of tweakers probably lack. So the idea that someone without Graham's level of understanding and skill can somehow improve a circuit designed by Graham is, frankly, without merit. If the circuit cannot be improved then what would be the point of tweaking it, other than the pleasure presumably gained from the tweaking activity? Again, nothing wrong with that in principle but I for one would prefer to just sit and listen to the Music, and if that makes me a music addict and not a Hi-Fi addict then so be it! One last thing, this is not a personal attack on you or anyone else, just my point of view. I do find it very odd that some people spend a decent sum of money on a perfectly good component and then set about trying to Improve it without the knowledge or understanding of the circuits design parameters! Regards Les ------------- I don't do mediocrity! Les Sutherland |
Posted By: LOINER
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2013 at 1:24pm
Well said LES  It is actually an insult to the designer IMO In this instance a more than competent one ------------- STUART SOLO ULTRA LINEAR DIAMOND EDITION LAUTUS DUAL MONO 1.5M INTERCONNECTS GRAM AMP 2SE |
Posted By: less
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2013 at 2:00pm
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What I was trying to say in my last post was that Graham designs his products for those of us who want to listen to music. I am sure, though I stand to be corrected, that Graham would love to sell more product to more people, but would prefer that purchasers trusted to his expertise. Tweakers should perhaps look elsewhere. Hope I haven't upset Graham by saying that! Regards Les ------------- I don't do mediocrity! Les Sutherland |
Posted By: LOINER
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2013 at 2:17pm
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LES I think we all understood what you were trying to say and you were quite right in what you said and how you said it (see my previous post) I don't presume to know how Graham feels but I can't imagine there is anything in what you said that would upset him ,quite the opposite actually imo ------------- STUART SOLO ULTRA LINEAR DIAMOND EDITION LAUTUS DUAL MONO 1.5M INTERCONNECTS GRAM AMP 2SE |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2013 at 2:44pm
Exactly! However, I know from previous experience there are those (on some websites) who like to discredit me... They can't sleep on a night until they have! ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: highfell
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2013 at 4:22pm
I understand the point that you are making and no offence taken. I think that we are all tweakers and improvers to a certain extent, eg we progress from ipod headphone out, to using the line out into a headphone amplifier and then decide that the DAC on a ipod can be improved upon, so you take the digital out into a separate DAC etc. etc. Anyone on this forum is interested in music quality and seeking the holy grail. And over time seek improve the quality of the sound until we get to a level that we feel satisfied with. I can sympathise with the rolling of OPamps as I think its analogous to the rolling of Valves in a valve amplifier and in the latter there is no question that you can tell the difference between newer valves and some of the old GEC ones for example. Some portable amplifiers offer a selection of suitable OPamps that you can choose from. But your point is well made in that there seems to be tendency for members of certain forums to change their equipment all the time. In looking at old threads of a particular new amplifier or DAC they sometimes extol their virtues as producing an excellent sound, but when you look at their current profile, the equipment that they own is very different !! |
Posted By: kt66
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2013 at 5:35pm
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terribly excited about this news,still have my 2 year old Voyager, used daily with my HM-801 or Hisound Studio I would like a totally clean,warts n all, neutral sound and dump the contour switch Would like to be a test driver to compare to my Voyager,Epiphany O2,Fiio 07 & 17 And please keep the plastic case, I can throw it in my bag without fear of marking, I cant say the same for Fiio and Epiphany. If it does come in a metal case please include a carry case or offer. And I want a super amp and not a DAC |
Posted By: Ahgast
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2015 at 7:22pm
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My Voyager has been a loyal companion for at least 6 or 7 years and people are amazed at the difference in sound quality when they plug in their portable device. I use mine mostly with an iPod classic, primarily because of the large memory and use a Kimber Cable to connect directly from the line out. I like the option of having the contour option and in my view , with some headphones improves the sound. It's always good to have choice and as far as I am aware, few other portable amps offer this feature so Graham you should consider this a USP! I also would be happy to keep the battery configuration. Yes it convenient to have a sealed internal battery, but if my history with mobile phones is anything to go by, they are also the first component that to fail. Ultimately it's about the sound quality and if you can improve on that then I defiantly would buy.
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Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2015 at 11:19am
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Hi David and welcome to the forum. It's great you're getting on so well with the Voyager, though not a surprise! I definitely agree with you about sealed batteries! IMO it's a ploy to get us to replace our devices more quickly . . .  ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: discrete badger
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2015 at 1:27pm
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Most sealed batteries are easy to renew, and replacements are easy to find, unless the product's case also happens to be sealed. I suppose you do have to be confident enough to tinker though! Never a problem for me, but not everyone is so inclined.
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2015 at 7:20pm
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Points to address: Battery (or batteries): having asked metalworkers how they could incorporate a form of battery access, I have still to receive an answer, and I don't think I ever will. An option would be to keep the existing plastic case, but more on that below. If there is to be no battery access, the the battery would have to be soldered in place because, otherwise, corrosion would eventually affect performance (edit: that's battery contact corrosion). The ideal answer would be to use a bought-in battery compartment, but they are bulky. Case: the original case is good from a wear and tear point of view, and several Voyagers have been around the world with their owners, and have clocked up more air-miles than most humans (apart from airline crew). However, most people want looks rather than longevity, witnessed by their willingness to spend big-time on delicate mobile phones. Many express their dislike for the existing case or anything thicker than a wafer. We are not Apple or Samsung, or a mutinational brand, and to make something like that requires a projected sales turnover in the several thousands - this is not going to happen. To house a PP3 (E-cell) battery, the case has to be thicker than it. To house a battery drawer that takes such a battery, the case has to be even thicker. It cannot be a wafer! Op-amp rolling: the 8 pin DIL package is on borrowed time. SOIC (small outline integrated circuit) packages are replacing 8 pin DIL op-amps at an alarming rate. The price of adaptors required to convert SOIC to DIL sockets is considerable. The economical solution is to use SOIC straight onto the board - surface mount. The only way to roll an op-amp would be to desolder it and solder in an alternative. Valves may well have been "rolled" but transistors were not, and all an op-amp consists of is a predetermined transistor configuration. There was a time when folk just trusted that the engineer knew his job... not so now, it would seem. Use: from what "real" people tell me (those who are not wanting to make a fashion statement or those who don't feel they, as solicitors, bank managers, surgeons, interior designers, marketing executives etc, are better than a time served audio design engineer), all that is wanted is a high performance battery portable amplifier that goes a step beyond the existing Voyager. Could this be spelled out in terms I can understand? Hopefully the above will be taken constructively and answered similarly. Thank you, Graham ------------- That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2015 at 7:03pm
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What you say Graham makes a lot of sense. To my mind performance, and reasonable convenience, are the most important factors. No one could honestly expect an iPhone sized case. ------------- 'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.' |