Replacement HD650 cable
Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Headphone Audio
Forum Name: DJ and Professional Headphone User
Forum Description: Technical Q&A, hints and tips
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1999
Printed Date: 19 Apr 2024 at 2:08pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Replacement HD650 cable
Posted By: gbr2004uk
Subject: Replacement HD650 cable
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2013 at 5:44pm
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I wanted to start a new sub-topic but can't see how to do that, so I'm continuing. Sod's law! One of the cables on my HD650 which I've wanted to replace for years with something better than the original suddenly went, sort of "nibbled through" (so to speak) near where it connects to the phone making continuous playback impossible! Just when I'd configured dBpoweramp and ripped a CD -- was playing it back with Foobar when ... etc ... I thought it was the software. First question, thanks in advance for answers: Can you recommend a good cable that will fit? I see Amazon (UK) are doing "ZY HIFI Cable Sennheiser HD650 HD600 HD580 HD525 HD565 Headphone Upgrade HIFI" Quote: "Material: single crystal four-core twisted-pair copper (6N) Plug:Y plug - domestic productionof gold-plated products Shao mold; 6.35 stereo plug - imported newNeutrik (if custom-made 3.5 stereo plug for Canare F-12) Features: high resolving power, smooth sound transparent, clearand full of layered detail; IF moist,magnetic voice; full of powerful low frequency. Length: 2.5M" for GBP <37 (about <50USD) But (ouch!) there's a Cardas cable for 160GBP (>250USD) No way! Especially if I'm going to get the Bitzie. There must be something ... So very grateful if you can recommend something. The price of the first one I mentioned is +/- where I'm thinking of. I have a stand-by Sennheiser HDR 120 wireless headphone which is nowhere near as good as the 650, so it's probably the end of my research until the middle of next week, before I can get a replacement for the cable. I do have another question but it's a separate topic about the dBpoweramp configuration, so I'll post that later. Meanwhile thanks again for any help. (Just realised I didn't check to see if you actually do them, cables I mean. Must do so.) Brian |
Replies:
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2013 at 6:25pm
I've moved this to a new sub-topic as you suggested. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
gbr2004uk wrote:Posted By: gbr2004uk
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2013 at 9:14pm
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Thanks Jon. B. |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 5:12pm
I don't want to sound harsh here but I don't want to lie either...  If you wish to use a headphone that is as coloured as the HD650 then just buy a replacement Sennheiser HD650 (or 600) cable and be done with it, instead of buying into stuff like a Cardas cable. In other words, save your money. No aftermarket cable is going to change the fact that the HD650 has a coloured presentation. Cables only offer fine-tuning of the transducer's basic frequency characteristics, it's not a coarse adjustment for headphone behaviour. HD650 is not high fidelity, despite being marketed as such.However, this is just my opinion and you are free to ignore it.  ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: gbr2004uk
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 5:39pm
Why would I want to ignore anyone who has taken the time and trouble to reply to a question I've asked, especially on an expert forum such as this one?  I appreciate your frankness. Indeed last night (UK time) I did buy a replacement Sennheiser cable from an audio online store in the UK for just under 25 GBP -- largely because I didn't want to wait for the one I mentioned earlier (not the Cardas) to come from China, and in any case I didn't like the look of its construction.So for better or worse I've got a cable coming. By the way, why do Sennheiser not give proper instructions as to how to remove the ear pads? I did get them off (I'm getting new ones) but only after I took courage in both hands, literally, and tugged hard. There's a lot of stuff from bewildered owners on the web about this. And I found, as did others who have also written about it on the web, it was a real devil of a job to get the cable attachments out of the actual cans themselves. Goodness knows why they have to be so fastened almost as if glued in. Had to carefully use a pliers to get them out. I shall have to look up the term "coloured presentation", just as I've had to look up so much other jargon this past week. It's the first time I've heard the HD650 described as not high fidelity, and I'm in no position to contradict you, but I should be most interested to hear if the other experts here concur or otherwise. To feel justified in accepting or ignoring anyone's opinion, I have to have either objective factual evidence, or maybe know something about their affiliations, qualifications, expertise and so on. Although the former always tends to be a better guide than the latter! 300 GBP+/- would be an awful lot of money to splash out on something that wasn't hi-fi to at least some considerable degree. I bought it originally not long after they came out at the same time I got my Clavinova, and on the recommendation of the shop we still had locally before sadly and shamefully it closed the branch -- Chappell, the famous music place based in Bond St London. Thanks to anyone else who may feel moved to add a bit more on the Sennheiser HD650. all best Brian |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 6:03pm
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I researched the HD600 and HD650 almost obsessively last year when I was choosing between them just based on online reviews. I bought the HD600 eventually after much much consideration, procrastination and postulating, as everywhere I went, reviewers described the HD600 as more neutral and less coloured. By "coloured", I mean that particular sound frequencies are not represented at the same dB levels as they were when they were recorded. They can be higher or lower in volume compared to the other frequencies. This causes many problems such as altered instrument tonality and reduced spatial perception of the audio. As for the term "hi-fi"... It's supposed to mean "high fidelity" (as in, true to life accuracy) but now it's just another term manufacturers use to exploit the trust of the uninformed layman. There are many people who do not know the true meaning of high fidelity reproduction... Many manufacturers aren't helping consumers to reach hi-fi reproduction; they're merely keeping them from it! The illusions lead people in the wrong direction. As Graham Slee has suggested, it's just a secret "let's get rich out of this" business and naive consumers will continue to fall victim to it and lose themselves down silly paths. It's a shame... ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: gbr2004uk
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 6:58pm
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Thanks Nuance-Ember. Looked at some glossaries -- "Coloration - any change in the character of sound that reduces naturalness, such as an overemphasis of certain tones. Coloration: Listening term. A visual analog. A "colored" sound characteristic adds something not in the original sound. The coloration may be euphonically pleasant, but it is not as accurate as the original signal." I do wonder often how much I'd notice subtle differences when lost in the music. My listening conditions are less than ideal, tho' I suppose that's true for many people. I was reading earlier today that 'high fidelity' doesn't necessarily always mean the most pleasant or most musical sound or experience. I was looking at some Amazon customers' comments and was amused to see this one (quoting from memory). "I listen to the music through my equipment, I don't listen to my equipment through the music". Maybe a rather cynical take! all best Brian |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 7:24pm
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Hi-fidelity in practise means different things to different people IMO. When so much music is created in a studio the "realism" is in the ears of the producer, and we, the consumers, have to aspire to a sound we assume the producer wanted. It's a bit easier with pure acoustic recordings as we all think we know what real instruments sounds like. But at the last orchestral concert I went to (the LSO), I was struck by how the balance was not like what I would have considered a "good" orchestral recording. High woodwind pierced the full sound in a way you never hear on record, for instance. And as for the dynamics.... no contest of course. Hifi equipment has an impossible job, and compromises are everywhere. We choose what suits us, both in sound quality and cost. That we don't all choose the same doesn't automatically invalidate the kit we disregard. HD650s, which I have along with D7000s, LCD2s and Shure IEMs, have a different presentation from the others, but they are no-less "hi-fi". Some recordings I have sound better through these than, say, the LCD2s. Obviously YMMV  ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 7:57pm
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+1 on Bob's wise words ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: jamescodway
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 10:06pm
What were your impressions when you listened to the HD650? Best James ------------- Voyager - HD25 |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 10:36pm
...and this is where I lose my credibility... I have only used the HD600, not the HD650. I owned the HD600 for one year before selling them. I have reason to believe (from the opinions of several other reviewers) that the HD600 and HD650 sound very very similar, with some subtle differences. These reviewers stated that the HD650 is more coloured than the more neutral HD600, from their listening tests. I listened to the Sennheiser HD600 myself quite thoroughly through my Lautus USB cable and Bitzie DAC and the sound was mostly neutral, apart from upper bass frequencies protruding out of the mixes. I listen to a lot of orchestral soundtracks and the upper bass emphasis was a trait that seemed to reoccur throughout the tracks. The upper registers of a double bass seemed to be presented louder than the rest of the bass. I just felt that the bass of the HD600 was not neutral. The HD600 is very good (the midrange is really beautiful!!  ) and I'm sure that the HD650 likely has this same characteristic. I guess I'm a bit of a purist in that I only consider "hi-fi" devices to be a tool that the sound engineer can use for monitoring, mixing and mastering. When I say "not hi-fi", I don't mean that the device is a poor performer, I simply feel that the device lacks some sonic honesty, that's all. Not trying to undermine people or their choices of equipment. I'm just trying to use some reasoning and I'm aware that the opinions of people are always going to vary.Hopefully I haven't upset anyone or savaged anyone beyond forgiveness. ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: gbr2004uk
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 10:55pm
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That's really interesting, thanks Bob. I'll tell you something -- for years I've been a subscriber to the wonderful Naxos Music Library. When I first joined I paid for the top quality sound -- in those days I think there were 3 price ranges, CD, near-CD, and FM-radio quality. It has now changed to Premium and Standard (I've no idea what they translate to in audio-maths terms). But after a season paying top rate, I thought, heck, this is coming over the internet through goodness knows how many intermediate stages, my pc and headphones or speakers are by no means top of the range (although my current pc is a bit more like it), why am I paying for a front row seat so to speak when I'm sitting at the back of the stalls (let's not quibble about whether the latter might actually be better in a concert hall!) So I'm now with the Standard, and honestly, it's fine. Naxos is really great -- huge selection of a very wide range of music and provided you have a fast Broadband, there's no buffering etc ... No way could one ever call his hi-fi listening, whatever the definition, and yet it just suits what I want out of being able to hear good, great, indifferent, old, new music! One thing I haven't tried is whether interposing the Voyager between pc and headphones would improve it -- and I don't know if theoretically one could expect Foobar2000 to add anything? Any suggestions on the latter? On opinions and subjectivity, I recall from years ago hearing the violinist Isaac Stern in conversation with some people, and they also had a number of violins in the room (or studio). One at least was a super Strad, others were a mix of old non-Strad instruments and some by modern makers. Someone then played (it could well have been that old standby, the theme from the slow movement of Bruch #3!) the same music on different fiddles, and the assembled great and good had to guess which instrument ...etc Stern was unimpressed, saying "What we're hearing mostly is the *room* ..." And he wanted the player simply to play basic scales. I suppose such stories are legion. There's another one of someone visiting Schweitzer in Lambaréné with its suffocating humidity and heat, ruinous to any piano. It seems Schweitzer had so adapted that he didn't even realise his piano was hopelessly out of tune. OK, I'm just making excuses! Horses for courses. Cheers Brian |
Posted By: gbr2004uk
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2013 at 11:12pm
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The context is useful, thanks, Nuance_Ember. I knew a music teacher once and so many times I said a particular composition was wonderful, or a performance I'd heard was so enjoyable -- and so many times this musician would be so scathing and critical, this was wrong, that was awful, they didn't "bring out" a passage here or a there. So that after a while I began to wonder whether this person really liked music at all! The "enjoyment" seemed to be in the rubbishing! I didn't think your comment about the headphone was in the same league at all, so I wasn't upset or offended but it made me think about the larger purpose. I'm a keen photographer and similar things happened on photo forums -- you'd wonder if they were looking at the actual photos aesthetically at all in some cases while they got lost in all sorts of techie things.But I don't want to be misunderstood -- of course I realise that without the technology there's no art, and clearly some designs are brilliant and others are rubbish, and the difference shows. Some concert halls have great acoustics, others, well, you know ... But to be fair to the music teacher mentioned above, I did once send them a CD I'd burned myself and I said I hoped the high frequencies weren't too shrill and the scratches didn't cause a problem. And they replied that none of it mattered because "I hear what I want to hear". Hmm... Dunno about that. Brian |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2013 at 8:37am
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Brian - I'm sure that using your Voyager with your PC would improve the sound quality. I can't comment on Foobar2000 though. All I can say is try out all the combinations to see which you prefer ... ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: gbr2004uk
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2013 at 9:03am
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Thanks Bob. As soon as the new cable arrives I'll try just that. At the moment, all I've got as standby are Sennheiser HDR120, wireless on a battery-recharge support stand. I think the signal is equivalent to FM radio, ie very much non hi-fi (I guess). But it's OK for casual listening, esp. non music. Couple of impractical points about the HDR120 -- it's supposed to be good for listening while doing anything about house or garden, but it too easily falls off the head! If you bend the neck to look down, the phones slip off! Don't know why Sennheiser didn't arrange something with a firmer hold . Second point which may be intrinsic to the concept -- if you forget to switch them off after the sound signal has stopped, eg end of a broadcast, after about a minute you get a blast of white noise (or maybe it's pink) in your ears! They seemed a good buy at the time, and the fact that there are no wires is in many circumstances a bonus, but if I was going to get wireless phones again, I'd look at something else. cheers Brian |
Posted By: gbr2004uk
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2013 at 9:37am
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Update on rough-n-ready test. Naxos Music Library, Sennheiser HDR 120 wireless with and without interposition of Voyager. I thought Mahler 5th, 2nd mvt would be a good test. By itself the HDR120 gives a very poor and hopelessly thin account of this "Mit grosster Vehemenz" whirlwind. Even with the several seconds' it takes to disconnect / reconnect with the Voyager, there's no mistaking the huge improvement, especially with the Voyager switched to Contour. It's still very much better with Flat, but with Contour it's certainly listenable-to, which is something I couldn't say for these phones without the augmentation of Voyager. (I bet with the Bitzie it would be even better, from what I've read.) Actually re the Foobar2000, don't know what I was thinking of -- this can only be used with existing files, ripped CDs etc, not with streaming sound. Yes? That's not its 'thing'. all best Brian |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2013 at 11:19am
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Do not know about Naxos Music Library, but Foobar can play streaming content, I have used it with a local independent music station, the L*nn streaming service and one or two others at different times. ------------- Tony G |
Posted By: RichW
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2013 at 1:04pm
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Hi Brian,
Regarding your HD650 replacement cable - I think you have probably done the right thing by
buying a direct replacement rather than an 'upgrade' cable.
I owned HD650s until recently & bought a StefanAudioArt replacement cable & quite honestly
found little difference.
I can't comment on the Cardas though.
I never really got on with the 650s - especially the bass & replaced them recently with 700s.
Many people like HD650s so it's just down to personal preference.
Cheers
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Posted By: gbr2004uk
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2013 at 1:21pm
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Even if I didn't like it, I can't afford to buy another one! But I get on with it OK. Thanks for commenting, and I'm pleased to read what you say about the cable. In an idea world, I probably wouldn't use headphones at all, I'd have a sound-proofed room with the best speakers (probably a whole stack of them) that I could afford. As with life itself and how we live it, we have to do the best we can with what we've got -- we can't do more and we mustn't do less.  The cable arrived this morning, but before I use it I'm waiting for the replacement earpads to arrive.By the way, can one just push and shove these things into the cans? The HD650 is a devil to work with, I'll say that. Even with pliers it was tough work getting the old cable out -- and experimental attempts so far to push the old earpads back into place aren't encouraging. I suppose courage and brute force are the only answer, but what a poor show! Ah well <wry sigh> Brian |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2013 at 3:30pm
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Brian, here is one man's comparison between the HD600 and HD650. http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/very-important-sennheiser-hd-580-hd-600-and-hd-650-page-3 ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: gbr2004uk
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2013 at 5:43pm
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Thanks N_E. I'm not at this moment sure that I necessarily want to read it, tho' I might when I think about it. I've got the 650 now, better/worse/good/bad/middling and I'm not going to get a 600. So I'll take note of the link and save it up. cheers B |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2013 at 9:01pm
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Enjoy the music. It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you have. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Justin122
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2015 at 12:51pm
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Don't think you'll find one, buy some AUdio Technica headphones instead. |
Posted By: Paperweight
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 1:20am
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I just ordered some affordable $1.12 a foot Mogami wire and 1/4" TRS plugs to build my own cables for the 600s and 650s. I have 3 pairs of the Cardas connectors intended for Sennheiser headphones that fit on the left and right sides. The standard cables are pretty decent but tend to break in intervals of 1-2 years. I'm hoping to have the ones I build last a little longer. If not, I have another 50 feet of cable to replace it. Depending on headphone amp, I've always found the 650s to be overly boomy in the bass.
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