Alignment tools
Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Turntable Audio
Forum Name: High Fidelity Turntable User
Forum Description: Technical Q&A, hints and tips
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1966
Printed Date: 27 Mar 2026 at 2:12am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Alignment tools
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Subject: Alignment tools
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 12:55pm
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On my Rega P3-24 and Technics SL1210 I have been using paper alignment protractors for a few years now. These are arc protractors I got from the Vinyl Engine website and I would put them on top of an old LP, using Blu-tac to lock the platter in place. I bought a Clearaudio Alignment Gauge recently and would now recommend this. Why do this: records are cut in a straight line from edge to centre but the standard tonearm is pivoted so the stylus (and cartridge) follow an arc. The various alignments will minimise the distortion caused by the angle of the stylus in the groove. How 1: Paper arc protractor - see above. Assuming you use the correct arc and it is to scale, the main challenge is ensuring the protractor is correctly positioned. That means cutting the right size hole for the spindle and pointing the baseline at the pivot. How 2: the Clearaudio alignment gauge has a ruled arm with a thin rod you position on the centre of the top of the arm pivot. It is quite easy to use after the first go (!) and now gives me quick and repeatable results on both decks with different cartridges. It is £190 but is well made and offers some alignment options I liked. Tip: I use a Linen Tester I bought from Maplin, A82AW - £7.49. It's a 6x magnifier lens in a hinged frame. Before moving the tonearm across I put the magnifier just in front of the alignment grid cartridge, centred and focussed on the alignment point. The new Smart Tractor uses the same idea! ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Replies:
Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 1:50pm
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Thanks Jon, I may one day get one of these, although with a single turntable/cartridge I have previously only used the Vinyl Engine paper protractor A tip for anyone printing a Paper arc protractor: One way to cut the hole accurately for the spindle is to use a pin and make small holes closely spaced as possible along the printed centre circle. If done carefully and using slightly thicker photo print paper, it pushes out easily along the perforations. Done this way, the hole can be pretty accurate I also found that printing in red ink made it easier to see the stylus tracking the arc during alignment Not as good as the Clearaudio gauge of course but may help for anyone on a tight budget. ------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 2:57pm
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Jon-is the Clearaudio device calibrated in millimetres or inches for the effective arm length setting? Thanks. ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 5:11pm
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The ruler on the bar is in mm and measures the arm mounting distance pivot to spindle, with the thin rod centred on the tone arm pivot. You then adjust the cartridge position in the head shell so the stylus/cantilever is aligned to the grid on the protractor. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 5:38pm
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Thanks Jon. I was mistakenly under the impression that the adjustable "rod" was first set to the arm's effective length. I've been considering one for sometime now but the price has put me off somewhat. It certainly looks much easier than setting the stylus to two separate points and still ensuring the cantilever lines up with the grid too! I get quite irate with myself at times trying to align a cartridge, this might well help control the blood pressure! ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 6:05pm
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Those are/were our shared frustrations! I have found it much easier, especially when I put the 6x magnifier to use to assist my aging eyes. I use a standard Helix ruler to keep the magnifier square to the grid. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 9:58pm
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It also offers a useful feature that can be emulated with multiple paper protractors: increasing the inner groove radius from the IEC standard of 60.325mm. Using 75mm halves the distortion provided your records have plenty of space between the last track on the side and the record label. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2013 at 10:33am
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Well, I've bitten the bullet and the credit card balance and bought the Clearaudio gauge! Project have a similar cheaper device which, although would work with other turntable/arms and is probably as effective, seems to be designed more for their own equipment. No more frustration - hopefully. ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2013 at 6:34pm
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Hopefully it will be as easy for you as mine was. If not please let me know if I can help. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2013 at 5:09pm
Received the Clearaudio gauge but not tried it yet. It'll not fit over the spindle of the PT! It's not the gauge because it's fine on the other two t/tables. A very careful "easing" of the PT spindle is required first, after removing it of course.I'll use the IEC 60.325mm point first. Do you find using the 75mm position gives better results? I'm a bit wary of using it because of the last track end to label differs from record to record. It's certainly a beautifully made piece of kit, needs to be for the price, and hopefully much easier to achieve the desired results. ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2013 at 8:18pm
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Hi Peter, the 75mm is very good on most records but needs the cartridge to be way forward in the headshell. That may not be possible with all cartridges but I moved my P3-24 arm with Rega Exact into about 219mm to use that settings and it sounds very good. On the SL1210/2 I was using 70mm with the Musicmaker, which I think works well. My recent use of the DL-103 has been based on the 65mm because it won't far enough out from the pivot. Overall I'd start with 70 rather than 60. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2013 at 7:22am
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Thanks Jon, I'll flip the gauge base over and give the 70mm point a go. The PT is in use at the moment and once I've sorted the spindle it's first on the agenda. ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: suede
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2013 at 2:20pm
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I just do it by ear. It's tedious work for sure (can get stuck for hours if I'm in OCD mode) but you really hear it when you get it perfectly right.
------------- Proprius, Reflex M, Solo UL, Bitzie, CuSats & Spatia --------------------------------- Johan |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2013 at 4:19pm
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An arc protractor would save you a lot of guess work and iterations Johan. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: suede
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2013 at 4:43pm
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I suppose it would, but I only have to align my cartridge about once every year or so. It's more fun spending the money on a nice record or two then, these protractors always seemed rather unreasonably pricey and I don't trust the kind you print out yourself to be accurate enough to provide much more help than doing it by hearing alone, the Senn HD250 and Solo UL being great assets for this. ------------- Proprius, Reflex M, Solo UL, Bitzie, CuSats & Spatia --------------------------------- Johan |
Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2013 at 6:56pm
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If you only have 1 turntable checkout below, bit fiddly but quite accurate, check out the comments at the bottom. It consists of clear sheet on a mirror for alignment. http://www.mintlp.com/best.htm - http://www.mintlp.com/best.htm I think Avid also no have a similar product ------------- Steve ------------- Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is. |
Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2013 at 7:01pm
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I printed the Vinyl Engine one for my TT (Baerwald /Rega) on photo paper and the 3 point alignment worked well for me. Taken very carefully & using a strong magnifying glass to check - I have yet to find an LP where I notice any distortion (apart from older worn ones) The 'torture' album tracks in my collection - Sunforest, Sound Of Sunforest "All In Good Time" & Los Lobos The Neighbourhood "Be Still" play without problem. A few with sibilance compare well where I also have a CD copy to check. It seems to be on the master tape so I am happy with my setup If I had multiple TT's & carts I may invest in a protractor but as Johan says, I prefer to spend as much as possible on music itself ------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2013 at 8:38pm
Yes, Avid's is a universal alignment guide very similar to that best tractor. It has a mirrored top surface, a hole to fit over the spindle and a line to point directly at the tonearm pivot. ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
ServerBaboon wrote:Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 11:45am
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There's a new high end protractor, the SMARTractor" and it has an alternative alignment on offer UNI-DIN. Please read up if interested. Personally I wanted something that locked down the pivot to spindle line and was fairly quick to use. I tried to work out how to use the Project protractor on another company's turntable but concluded it would be a fudge. The Dr Frieckert one offered Lofgren A and B but in the end I went for the Clearaudio with its different inner groove options. It is a lot of more expensive than a paper protractor but it is much quicker. And I'm not balancing a piece of paper on top of an old LP whilst using Blu-tac to stop the platter rotating. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 11:58am
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I checked the alignment of the cartridge fitted to the PT/Nima using the Clearaudio instrument and it is spot on the 65mm radius point! Something which seems to be lacking on the Clearaudio device is a scribed line on the grid, in line with the cantilever and passing through the reference point. I don't like using the cartridge body to line up with the grid. With some cartridges it's virtually impossible anyway! The pivot point on the Nima arm is easy to locate because there is a fine height adjustment for the uni-pivot bearing on top and in the centre . The pivot to spindle shows 222mm (Rocksan state 222.5mm). A half millimetre clearance in the mounting hole? The cartridge was set up using Roksan's supplied protractor. It would appear, maybe, their null points coincide with the Clearaudio 65mm setting? I'll check the Radius/Nima to see if that's the same. The Roksan protractor was used for that too. Edited to correct the 225.5mm to 222.5mm. ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 12:24pm
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Thanks Peter. Interested to know what you find out comparing it to the OEM alignments. I agree about the line for the cantilever as I also work on that rather than the casing. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 1:42pm
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I previously wrote up the Mint Arc Protractor on this forum see http://audio-forum.gspaudio.co.uk/cartridge-alignment-the-mint-lp-best-tractor_topic264.html?KW=mint - here for my thoughts on that. Another option I have found useful when doing "one off" alignments for others has been to use the free arc http://conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm - generator from Conrad Hoffman, it allows minute adjustment of the printed output in both axes to allow for printer inaccuracy. The templates printed have reference measurements on both axes and the print can be checked with an engineers steel rule for accuracy and adjustment made with great accuracy, eg < 1mm in 200 as required. If printed on photo paper or laminated they will give a slippery surface that the stylus will not catch on. To me the advantage of an arc protractor is that it does not rely on correct alignment with the pivot point, since when overhang is set correctly, the template can be positioned so that the stylus follows the arc and the platter then locked in place. I use small wedges cut from a pencil eraser to hold the platter in position when the arc is set correctly. I made up a pdf of the procedure for a friend interstate, it can be downloaded from http://users.tpg.com.au/tony_g//TT_setup/Setup.pdf - here - it is too big to upload here - 1MB - perhaps someone will find it useful. Interesting to read of adventures with the more expensive tools, I had recently come upon the "smart tractor" it does look the business, but I have yet to see a price for it, the local rep was being cagey about that. All good fun and rewarding too. ------------- Tony G |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2013 at 9:57pm
This seemed a sound point to me. I used a fine pen to extend the small alignment cross so there is a carefully drawn 0.4mm line in front and behind, making it easier to align the cantilever. Obviously I am assuming the stylus is square to this, and I am pleased to note that the mono/lateral 1k signal is in phase. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2013 at 7:39am
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Yes, I've done the same Jon. I wish I'd bought one of these devices sooner. ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2014 at 8:41pm
| It seems like the Dr Feickert MkII Cartridge Alignment Tool may be the one to go for now? |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2014 at 9:12pm
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I really like my Clearaudio one. However these are all well designed and reviewed unit. I thought the original Dr F was good and you may well be right about the mark II version. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 4:44pm
| Are they worth the price increase over something like the Avid gauge? |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 9:27pm
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I haven't tried the Avid gauge. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 10:43am
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I've found an old alignment gauge that was given away as a "freebee" with, I think, HiFi Choice magazine. I mean old! I'll take and post a picture of it. It really is very simple with an elongated hole for the spindle which is marked with various overhang figures to line up with the spindle centre. There is one point to line up the cartridge using parallel lines. Then just a simple arc which the stylus should trace if it is correctly positioned on the headshell. It's printed on plastisised(is that a word?) card with a nice slippy surface which will not damage the sylus. I have used it years ago to good effect. I haven't a clue which alignment method it utilises though! ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: oldagetraveller
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 11:22am
Not HiFi Choice. That's the largest image I was allowed to upload!? ------------- Peter P T- LPT/RB300/G1042, Pink Triangle Tarantella/Nima/Ortofon 2M Black, SL1210II, Naim CD5, NAC112, NAP150, Flatcap2, Proac SC1, GS SoloUL,GS Accession , Senn HD250 & HD540. |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 6:50pm
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Thanks for the info. I am going to try and print a protractor on photo quality paper and use that for a while. I have just blown the Dr Feickert budget on an arm upgrade! |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 9:20pm
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I can send you some free Rega/AO arc protractors for Lofgren A and B if you pm me your e mail address Cagey. Just print them at the right size, use a pin or needle to cut a spindle hole, put the paper protractor on top of a record and follow the instructions. I use the Clearaudio for convenience and easy change for P2S distance. Peter, I may be able to help with uploading that interesting protractor if you pm me. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: 16s
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2014 at 4:40pm
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I purchased an Avid Mirrored protractor for Rega alignment (which i think is close to the Stevenson Null points). Don't get me wrong its a nice piece of kit. The printed lines and text on the mirrored surface are very clear. However the mirrored surface only works well in good lighting conditions. ie. bright but not direct light and ideally a room with plain / white walls. To be fair, in many situations a white backed or paper protractor will work just as well. ------------- Rich Michell Gyrodec SE, Michell Tecnoarm, Ortofon 2M Black, Systemdek IIx 900, RB300, 2M Blue, Rega Fono mkII |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2015 at 8:38am
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As the only thing I can really change on my FX1200 is the overhang, I decided that the Clearaudio and Feickert gauges were overkill. So, based on the above I also bought an Avid Rega alignment gauge. It seems to work well for my needs. Using the paper gauges, my alignment was pretty close, but this seems far more accurate as the spindle hole is a close fit. It was also much cheaper ------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ |
Posted By: 16s
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2015 at 9:12am
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How did you find the mirrored surface? ------------- Rich Michell Gyrodec SE, Michell Tecnoarm, Ortofon 2M Black, Systemdek IIx 900, RB300, 2M Blue, Rega Fono mkII |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2015 at 6:15pm
It was easy, I just opened the packet and there it was.  It's difficult to use if you try artificial lighting. Something similar on a non reflective surface could well be better. ------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ |
Posted By: Suggs
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2015 at 7:22am
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[QUOTE=CageyH]It was easy, I just opened the packet and there it was. ..with apologies to the Bonzo's? 
------------- Derek |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2015 at 4:15pm
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Well the Avid gauge is accurate, but a real pain to use with artificial lighting. I think I will get a "geo disc" alignment gauge in the next few months. A nice non-reflective surface. ------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ |
Posted By: Suggs
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2015 at 7:12am
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I would advise against it, the engraved markings have too large a tolerance to be accurate IMO and my alignment was quite a way out when checked against the more reliable "reflective" types (I have used two of these over the years and would recommend both). It is also far too thick to offer the same VTA/SRA as the one you will be using on a real LP. I recently sold mine on eBay after it had sat around on the records shelf for years without being used ------------- Derek |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2015 at 1:59pm
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Thanks Derek. You have just saved me about €50. I guess I will just have to continue to move my deck somewhere with better light every time I change the cartridge. ------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ |
Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2015 at 3:08pm
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I used a project Align-It for years, but I managed to snap the perspex bit while emptying a cupboard. Got a Feickert NG on order. Most people say it's the nuts, some say it can't be any good as it doesn't have a mirrored surface. But reading the internet will drive you crazy in the end. Will see how I get on. I also use a USB microscope I got from Maplins for abt 30 quid ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables -> 
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Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2015 at 4:24pm
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There is no point in me having a Feickert NG as I can only really alter the overhang. I may go back to a paper protractor. ------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ |
Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2015 at 4:31pm
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If you know the exact spindle-pivot measurement and spindle diameter on your turntable, the Mint protractor will give extreme precision. It's the best I have used ------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: Suggs
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2015 at 4:51pm
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I now use a Mint and it is very good...I have to say though that IMO the Wallytractor remains the first choice but, as Wally is now very old, it doesn't seem likely that any more will be made and he's not the best at communicating in any case ------------- Derek |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2015 at 6:36pm
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I think I plugged the Clearaudio a few pages back and like it for the flexibility it gives on differing P2S distances and the inner groove options. A magnifying glass is very helpful. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2015 at 7:53pm
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My FX1200 uses Rega geometry. It has very little adjustment for the cartridge, so makes set up really easy. A simple Technics/Rega protractor will do it. I'll have a look for the Mint. ------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 2:37pm
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I've been using the Clearaudio protector for some time now and like convenience and the design principle, which is described in the VE review. It uses the Baerwald alignment and I like the fixing to the arm pivot that makes a single alignment point/cross possible. This got me working out where other alignments would cross the line through the spindle (and inner null point) that is perpendicular to the P2S line. Lofgren I calculated would cross at 92.9mm from the spindle with an alignment angle of 90.7 degrees (measured clockwise from the spindle line). I will be marking this temporarily on my Clearaudio protractor and comparing the results to the Lofgren paper protractor I previously used. Whilst using the geometry for calculations and comparing the tracing curves with VE's alignment calculator, I also thought about a newish alignment designed to reduce distortion on the last tracks of classical records and worked backwards from its null points to calculate the effective length (and overhang) and the offset angle... On the Clearaudio protractor's line through the spindle mark a cross line at 84.3mm at an angle of 90.7 degrees (!) measured clockwise from the spindle line. Or the alignment's protractor can be drawn for a Rega-type arm using the Alignment Template Generator's Lofgren A setting with 58.9 inner and 130.8 outer grooves to get the null points I saw of about 64mm and 111mm. NB it is easier to draw a accurate right angle so the other option is working out the point when the cantilever/stylus should be parallel to the P2S line. For the 'new alignment' above I make that 87.5mm from the P2S line and about 1.3mm before the Clearaudio's spindle line. If this interests anyone please PM, if confused just ignore the post! ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 28 Jun 2015 at 7:49pm
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I am currently listening to some familiar records using that new alignment. The last tracks on each side sound slightly better than before, it would be easy to put the subtle improvements in clarity down to expectation. And the opening tracks sound fine i.e. similar too! ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2015 at 12:02pm
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What do you guys use to set azimuth? I finally bought a HFN test LP & there is a track on it with 2 mono channels out of phase, which should pretty much cancel each other out, but this requires a mono switch on the pre-amp, which I don't have. Cantilever looks right, & things sound OK so I could just leave it at that... but unfortunately I'm not made that way . Was pleased my setup coped with the other tests, had to adjust bias a little & there was distortion on the track 9 torture track, though the stylus at least stayed in the groove. 8 was fine. ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2015 at 1:38pm
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If you can use a soldering iron, you could ask GSP to provide the parts to fit a mono switch to your Reflex.
------------- Tony G |
Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2015 at 1:49pm
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I wouldn't trust myself anywhere near it with a soldering iron, but that does give me an idea. Will enquire about a factory retrofit. ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 8:05pm
You might be interested in the theory behind the UNIDIN alignment - as implemented on the SMARTractor. I'm trying to get my head round it now lol http://www.vanaltd.com/assets/uni-din-2015.pdf SMARTtractor itself is silly money tho ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 9:31pm
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Dave, you are right it was UNI-DIN I meant. I read the theory/design principles a few months ago but left it till now because I wasn't going to buy another protractor. I read the website blurb quoted in that pdf as 'very low tracing error/distortion on the last track where there is less bandwidth and inner groove distortion/’pinching’ is more likely to be heard... but with less distortion at the start than Stevenson.' That’s a reasonable hypothesis to test in practice with records. So I worked out how to draw an arc protractor based on 64mm and 111mm null points as above, and have since read Michael Fremer's post which gave 63.3 and 112.5. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2015 at 9:35pm
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As I posted earlier Fremer/WAM’s measured UNI-DIN nulls can be drawn on an “arc template” protractor by playing with the inner and outer grooves on Lofgren A. Because I was exploring my Clearaudio protractor I used the following process to understand and adapt this: Start with the platter spindle and arm pivot on the Baseline, which would be the mounting line for an infinitely pivoted long arm (or the end on linear tracking), but not for a practical pivoted arm as there would only be one null point which would be at the spindle unless the offset angle isn’t zero. Once the arm’s effective length exceeds the mounting distance there is a linear offset Lo of the first null point (and the platter spindle) along the ‘offset line’ through both spindle positions (original on baseline and offset one on the mounting line) to the inner null (at the distance N1 from the offset spindle). This line is perpendicular to the baseline. If the null distances N1 and N2 are known for an alignment the linear offset Lo is equal to their mean average, Lo = (N1 + N2)/2 = 87.9mm The baseline is one side of a right angle triangle so its length is: Baseline ^2 = (mounting distance or D) ^2– (Lo – N1) ^2 The arm’s effective length pivot to stylus is L ^2 = Lo ^2 + Baseline ^2 = 238.43mm At the inner null point the cartridge (cantilever/stylus) must be rotated or offset to the angle: OA = arcsin (Lo/L) = 21.63 degrees so it is parallel to the baseline. That null is where one grid of an arc protractor would appear. I think the Clearaudio uses the ‘spindle line’ through the platter spindle that is perpendicular to the mounting line from arm pivot to platter spindle (which is D long or in my case 223mm). So I worked out when the stylus of UNI-DIN would cross that line, using the right angled triangle and it is: X ^2 = L ^2 - D ^2 = 84.39mm And the stylus must be at this angle to the mounting line x = arcsin(D/L) + OA, or about 90.9 degrees. The same approach for Lofgren B gives 90.77mm and 90.8 degrees. The Baerwald alignment I use gives 93.47mm and 90.8 degrees. All these angles are pretty close to the sloped lines already on the Clearaudio protractor, which shows how ingenious this device is. I am thinking about making and mounting a mirrored plastic panel with thinner protractor lines on it, so all three options can be set easily. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2015 at 7:08am
The HFN test record is helpful and I have used that quick azimuth setup of balancing the channels on the mono pink noise. The anti-skate/bias must be right before that works because it will also affect left/right balance. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2015 at 7:28am
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Worth a read on the subject of cartridge alignment is the "Guru setup guide" from http://www.vacuumstate.com/index.dna?rubrik=4&lang=2&a=%2526k%25E5%253F48%25BA%259C&b=736145.3002027788 - Vacuumstate Aside from the "uni din" setup method of the Smart tractor, another of its rather nice features is the fact that the stylus crosshair has a small dimple that the stylus will fall into when positioned correctly. The supplied magnifier and its locating cutout are also very useful. ------------- Tony G |
Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2015 at 1:18pm
SME protractor has a similar thing. Drop the stylus into the dimple and then adjust the sled until it pulls the whole thing into alignment. Gloriously simple to use, so much so that many people say it can't possibly be right. But it is - assuming a stylus tip to mounting hole distance of 9.5mm. Someone else did an analysis of the geometry & it works. I double check at the null points using a standard 2 point & it looks bang on. This assumes you are happy with Baerwald/Lofgren A ofc ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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. Don't think it can be made to work with any other alignment.Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2015 at 8:07pm
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2015 at 8:17pm
Oh..neat! been looking for something like that.. didn't know what it was called though. They have them in stock near where I work. Gone up by 50p but I guess I can live with that  ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2015 at 9:09pm
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"...didn't know what it was called though" is an experience I've shared. I found it a lot easier to use than a jeweller's loupe (monocle like plastic tube with lens in) as I can keep my glasses on! BTW I think the simple SME tool works because the cartridge is fixed position in the arm so the offset angle is linked to the mounting distance and effective length set by the pivot position. I'd bet on SME having nailed the alignment maths to make a well engineering setup tool. IMO Lofgren A/Baerwald is very good, Lofgren B is arguably an even better balance as long as the cartridge will go forward enough but setting too high an offset angle is a risk to manage. If/when I make my protractor it will have the dimpled crosses Tony and yourself suggested. Thanks for the setup article Tony. One of the very best I have seen. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2015 at 9:25pm
Only caveat is something that has been raised by a few people online, whether through experience or just nitpicking i don't know. Basically, if your protractor can move with the platter rotation there's a chance you could damage your stylus if not careful i.e. rip it off the cantilever!! Should be OK with something like the clearaudio as the arm locks it in place? the SME one being very light (cardboard) rotates independently so you'd have to be really clumsy to do that. ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 01 Jul 2015 at 10:29pm
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That's good advice I take in the helpful spirit it is given, thanks Dave. A dimple is a shallow smooth sided hollow not a steep sided pit. I reject pitted and scratched records for the same reason. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2015 at 1:18am
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I have considered the possibility of untoward effects from unwanted movements during alignment. For that reason I always lock the platter with a couple of small wedges cut from a soft plastic pencil eraser. I also use a sideways brushing motion with the bristles of a small, soft brush against the headshell for minor positional adjustments across the grid which reduces the chances of unwanted movement and muscle tremor creating havoc. I had previously noted your mention of the Linen tester Jon, but had lost reference to it, good to have that again. Definitely much easier to use than a loupe. ------------- Tony G |
Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2015 at 7:10pm
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Another site I'm finding useful in trying to learn about alignment geometry & setup in general. I stumbled on it when I was looking for info on my arm, but he covers lots of areas of setup. Seems pretty sensible to me. http://odysseytonearms.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Formulae - http://odysseytonearms.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Formulae ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2015 at 7:57pm
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Although I use a Mint protractor on my main table, I also found the Conrad Hoffman printed protractor very accurate and easy to use - with the proviso that it is printed EXACTLY to scale Conrad was very helpful when I asked for a version that could default to print in red ink because one of my cartridges is the Ortofon 2M Black and the black tip was more difficult to see against the black arc line He emailed me a 'bespoke' version of his alignment protractor program that prints in red ink and it is extremely easy to play around with different alignments, null points etc and to enter the exact pivot-spindle of your particular arm. Personally I rate the CH version above the various Vinyl Engine derivatives ------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2015 at 8:45pm
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@Dave You'll find the formulae I posted on the previous page are based on the same geometry as the Odyssey blog. @Andrew I saw your VE posts about the red CH protractor. Put my unusual inner and outer grooves into the CH Alignment Template Generator set on Lofgren A and 223mm and it will print you a UNI-DIN protractor. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2015 at 7:00pm
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Picked up that linen tester this afternoon and spent an hour setting up
my spare TT. Very nice being able to have 2 hands free. Not to mention
being able to see what I'm doing!! Cheers Jon ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2015 at 7:54pm
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You are welcome. The linen tester helps me a lot too. I find the key is to tilt the lens so the drop point and line beyond the stylus are in focus. I ended up drilling out the various holes in a thin eighties LP, it was a scratched duplicate but I did feel slightly guilty. Anyway this has the obvious advantage that the alignment points on the address label I added are at the right vertical level. After a lot of careful measurement ('measure twice, cut once') I have a simple spindle line ( see above) with cross lines at 90.7 degrees or close enough. I marked it up for Lofgren B and UNI-DIN plus two of the Clearaudios. I am pleased to say that the latter alignments match on the two different devices. At the moment I'm using the same Clearaudio 65mm (Baerwald) as before but am going to try the UNI-DIN on some orchestral pieces next week. I'll probably add another label with a baseline for quickly positioning the linen tester. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2015 at 8:54pm
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An update on a new alignment. I printed an arc protractor for UD based on the 64 and 111mm null points, using the Conrad Hoffman utility and setting I gave earlier. It is better on the inner tracks, notably so on my older LP's that have music within 60mm of the spindle. Based on the tracing error ( http://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm_alignment_calculator_pro.php?&arm1=UD&l1=ps&a1lv=223&a1=cu&oh1v=15.405&oa1v=21.535&arm2=Lofgren+B&l2=ps&a2lv=&a2=lb&oh2v=&oa2v=&arm3=Baerwald&l3=ps&a3lv=&a3=la&oh3v=&oa3v=&arm4=Stevenson&l4=ps&a4lv=&a4=st&oh4v=&oa4v=&og=iec1&ogv=&ig=iec&igv=&cal=y&submit=calculate - click here for the VE alignment analysis*) being higher I had expected to notice more distortion on the first track on LP's but frankly I couldn't tell. The inner tracks are clearer with instrument separation and more dynamic so I will be sticking with it for a while. * You'll need to log into VE to see the graphs, which I have done for my 9 inch arm mounted at 223mm whereas the Fremer/WAM ones were for a 12 inch arm. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2016 at 9:46pm
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Well, even though I said I didn't need a decent alignment protractor, I have just ordered the Feickert NG version. I got fed up with the mirrored surface of the Avid garage making it more complicated than required. I will report back when it lands. ------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ |
Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2016 at 6:01pm
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I have one of those. Nice, well made piece of kit & simple to use. I've never got on with mirrored protractors ever, despite their supposed benefits, órrible things do my eyes in. Not sure I wouldn't have preferred black on white markings..to me the lines always look finer that way around and thicker when it's white on black. Probably says more about my befuddled brain than anything else It's largely redundant these days as my SME makes the setting of the overhang irrelevant and doesn't cater for any geometry other than Baerwald (or anything other than a 9.5mm mounting hole to stylus tip dimension come to that). I do use it occasionally to double check the null points when I suffer one of my regular bouts of set-up paranoia, and it confirms the SME set up works. The NG is probably also v good if you want to try or prefer Lofgren or Stevenson setup ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2016 at 8:43pm
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My biggest step forward in cartridge alignment was to buy one of those textile magnifiers from Maplin. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2016 at 6:33pm
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Is there a Doctor in the house? Well, there is now. It arrived, and seems to have made the cartridge alignment much easier. It's expensive for what it is, but if it prolongs the stylus life, I will be happy. Having seen the recommendation for a textile inspection magnifier, I have one of those on order as well. Thanks the tips chaps. ------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2016 at 6:15pm
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From my experience you won't regret the investment Kevin. I've been using a hybrid approach by carefully fitting my Clearaudio's base and arm to an old record that I stuck an arc protractor on. I used the UNI-DIN nulls and it's working well for me. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: CageyH
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2016 at 6:31pm
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I am already happy with my investment. It's highlighted that I bought the wrong Avid protractor  as I bought the "Rega" one rather than the universal, which does not work on a SL1200 due to the 7mm(?) difference in spindle to pivot distance. So yesterday was the first time that my cartridge has been properly aligned for a while!
 ------------- Kevin European loan coordinator, based near Toulouse, France. Funkified SL1200 Mk.II, BB3, Firebottle Kin , ADI-2 DAC FS, Modulus 686, PD-S703, Solo UL, Triangle Antal EZ |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2016 at 6:42pm
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Agreed and happy listening from now on Kevin. I have considerable sympathy with your experience. Part of my annoyance with Michell's 'rega' arm board was the P2S being 216.5mm or 5.7mm from correct, which also meant my 223mm arc protractors for the OL arm were not getting me the excellent results I wanted. Fixed some months ago and happy since then. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2016 at 10:41am
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Finally taken the plunge & ordered a Fozgometer + test disc. Last piece of the set up jigsaw. I actually tried to buy one last year (heavily discounted) but cancelled after an 8 week wait. This time I've ordered from Analogue Seduction so I don't expect any problems. ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2016 at 9:51am
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Nice one Dave. AS were prompt in sending my Fozgometer. I (and others) have been pleased with the results each time I have used it. Please let us know how it goes. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2016 at 7:52pm
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Fozgometer arrived today, so the usual prompt service from AS. The battery had been preinstalled and it was flat so I had to pop round to Tesco to get a new one. I burned the test tones to a CD and guess what ... my CD player won't read CD RW's (It's 10 years old) Marvellous!! Nevertheless I decided to use the meter and It was very easy. Connected straight off the cart, It told me that my azimuth dialled in by eye & ear was correct to just under 2 of the smallest divisions. I don't know what that equates to. A quick tweak & it was reading bang on. Although my SME doesn't have azimuth adjustment, my Ortofon has a ridge in the centre. Adjusting the mounting screws allows the cart to rotate a little. A pretty small adjustment can lead to quite a large change in reading, so it would be quite difficult to get absolutely spot on without the meter. Of course the nagging doubt is was the meter calibrated correctly? Maybe AS already did it - why else was the battery installed? I need to figure out how to play the test tones. I don't have a DVD player anymore. Never got any use. Maybe I can play them off my PC through my DAC? Gonna have a play with that idea later. ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2016 at 8:02pm
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Just a thought Dave, CD-RW have lower reflectivity than CD-R. It may be that your CDP would be OK with a CD-R. ------------- Tony G |
Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2016 at 9:51pm
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Well it's ok, the DAC thing worked. The calibration was a bit off but a bit of fiddling sorted it. I rechecked the Azimuth & made a tiny adjustment & L&R are reading identically as far as I can see. So all good. But here's a thing. The faceplate wasn't secured very tightly when I unpacked it. I thought nothing of it as the first thing I did was take it off, thinking a) I'd have to put the battery in (as per previous post) and b) I'd have to get at the trim pots. All subsequent measuring was done without it in the box. When I'd finished I screwed the unit together & for the hell of it rechecked the measurements. The lights lit up but the VU meter stayed at zero. Huhh? I started to undo the faceplate screws and the needle sprang into life. Tighten... and stops again. This happens every time. So.. battery already in, but dead - and something presumably shorting. Don't require Sherlock Holmes to work out this has been used, and more than likely returned as faulty. I'll be having words with AS tomorrow. For now I'm gonna go listen to the results. ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Posted By: DaveG
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2016 at 8:32pm
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Got the replacement today. This time it is new and it doesn't seem to have any problems. Been listening over the last few days to a properly set azimuth and the results are really very good. Last night I listened to Steely Dan's Gaucho. A very well recorded album for sure - those guys knew their way around a recording studio - and one that has lots of subtle touches hidden away in corners of the mix. It definitely sounded better than I've ever heard it on my system. More focussed - in 2 words. Just shows the difference between a deck thats set up close to optimally as opposed to one that is just thereabouts. It's hardly cheap and you may get lucky without the meter & hit on the perfect setting with a bit of persistence and careful listening. But this takes the guess work out (like which way to rotate the cart) and being able to set azimuth consistently in a couple of minutes makes the cost palatable. ------------- Dave Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
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Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2016 at 10:23pm
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It's a very expensive bit of kit. Surely someone could make one a lot cheaper that even I could afford one. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2016 at 6:46pm
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Where's Andrew's post? ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2016 at 8:19pm
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Sorry Ifor, I posted it but got an error so I'll try again: I use the DEQX unit to check azimuth, probably not as accurate as the Fozgometer but it does help to see channel balance & adjust if necessary. A screenshot with a mono album playing, taken during the setup of my new cartridge:  L1-R1=Subwoofers, L2-R2=Midrange, L3-R3=Tweeter dB readings ------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 9:17am
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Andrew, it clearly works, but it's even more expensive than the Fozgometer. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2017 at 8:45pm
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Resurrecting my own thread about alignment tools I am still finding the Clearaudio tool useful. It uses the platter spindle as the corner of a right angle between the bar going to the pivot and the tangent line that the stylus lands on. It uses the 'crossing distance' as I call it, X = Sq root (N1 x N2) and the angle of about 91 degrees to the tangent line which some members will appreciate gives the maximum tracing error compared to the 90 degrees null. Previously on hifi man shed... I have previously improved IMO on the Clearaudio tool's accuracy by sticking on self adhesive labels and carefully marking on the crossing lines and angles with thinner lines than the 1mm lines on the device as supplied. I have also been using a 6x magnifier (a textile magnifier from Maplin) as I shared a couple of years ago. I'm getting a 10x one to see if it adds clarity (image size vs depth of field). So... I ordered some 3mm acrylic mirror tile (A4 was about £3.50 off the big river shop) then did some marking, drilling, and scribing to get the extra precision of lining up the surface mark with its reflection from underneath for zero parallax error. Strange at first but I then found I was looking at the reflected stylus moving back towards the reflected tangent line, cross checking with the usual direct image of the stylus and the surface line. On the same mirrored protractor I also added a spindle hole at 26.67 (Lo - N1 for my SME arm and Phoenix cartridge, = 92.67 - 66.00) and a simpler right angle 66.0mm along from this. Pleased and slightly relieved to find the stylus was landing on the tangent line and the cantilever was along on the null line. If you have tried this you will know what is involved, I measured twice and cut my holes very carefully. Yes it sounds really good. Slightly cleaner and more dynamic than before. It struck me that moving the spindle hole along the 92.67mm (Lo for my arm and cart) long tangent line would allow slight changes to the first null distance like 64mm or 70mm with the Lo-N1 changing as it is equal to (N2-N1)/2 by definition. I have visualised an alignment tool with three parallel tracks, the 66mm (for Baerwald/Lofgren A IEC) null and two others, probably 64mm and 70mm. The spindle holes will be further out for the close inner nulls, and vice-versa. The SME's fixed length and offset angle fix the linear offset Lo so N1 and N2 are linked, unless you use thinner mounting bolts and wiggle the cartridge to change the offset angle slightly. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2017 at 4:10pm
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Well an (un)interesting development is that I used the newly verniered scale and read off the P2S/mounting distance and the baseline distance for the two protractors and calculated the effective length as 231.6 mm. After checking everything I concluded that the length of the cartridge was not 7.5 mm from stylus to screws but about 8mm. I checked this carefully with a ruler and it is 8.0 mm so not sure where I got 7.5 mm from. Doh! For the Clearaudio protractor the effective length of my SME and Phoenix combo doesn't matter as the crossing distance is the geometric mean of the chosen nulls. For the second protractor I made there is a difference as spindle is slightly too close (0.2mm) to the baseline, as the linear offset of my setup is 92.87 mm not 92.67 mm. The net effect is that I had aligned for an inner null of 68mm and it sounds pretty good to me on a variety of records, which was the point really. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2018 at 10:49pm
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Ironically I ended up proving the technical approach above of Clearaudio plus calcs with an arc protractor. Conrad Hoffman's Arc Template Generator is a very handy utility and free. To be fair I did use the maths described in this thread to work out the nulls and some trial and error to get the ATG to print what I needed. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2018 at 8:38pm
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Having had some time stuck at home with a stomach bug I was exploring the Clearaudio Protractor's formulas. Starting with a few basics like X, the crossing distance, squared X2 = N1 x N2 = Leff2 - D2 (D = mounting distance, M in Dennes), I went back to Graeme Dennes' study of tonearm geometry. I had forgotten that the linear offset Lo (Dennes' P) is only determined by the inner r1 and outer grooves r2 on the record and not by arm length or mounting distance! So the choice of offset length Leff and offset angle alpha (Beta in Dennes) determine the maximum error in the middle of the LP at crossing distance X (Ra in Dennes where equation 4 shows this is determined by the inner and outer groove radius, my r1 and r2). I'm not sure it makes the record sound better but it made me think. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2018 at 9:01pm
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Out of curiosity I may go back to the Uni-DIN alignment again, starting from its 57.5mm inner groove from the DIN spec. I had started from Lo = 88mm before this and now wondered what the outer groove would be? About 136mm or 10mm in from DIN (and IEC) outer groove. Rearranging equations 9 and 10 from Dennes to eliminate the inner and outer groove radius in turn, R1 and R2, gave me the equations for working these out from a known pair of null points. This works out where the equal peaks of Lofgren A/Baerwald would have been. Easier to explain with an example... Fremer's UNIDIN nulls of 63.3mm and 112.5mm give 58.0mm and 134.1mm for example. Whereas his preferred Lofgren B with nulls 70.3mm and 117.2mm gives 64.9mm and 136.0mm as the equivalent inner and outer radius. Interesting that the outer radius is are similar for two dfifferent approaches but I suppose both of them sacrifice the outer groove tracing for the section of the tonearm arc that their designer had prioritised in their particular alignment. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 9:50pm
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I have printed various arc protractors over the past decade but these suit a particular arm mounting distance D. Where the convenience and transferability of the right angle (pivot to spindle to stylus) protractor is hard to beat. It is independent of the mounting distance (P2S or D as I have referred to it above). I am glad I bought Clearaudio's version that works this way, rather than Denneson and others that use a Lo-N1 offset between the spindle and the corner of the right angle. It allows me to use the crossing distance X and crossing angle beta (- alpha) to get particular alignments on different turntables. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2018 at 5:32pm
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The latest on this is that I resurrected the mirrored acrylic idea but simplified the markings. I have used a compass point to make a dimple the right crossing distance (about 89.33mm for Baerwald/Lofgren A IEC) out from the spindle/bearing, at a right angle from the spindle to pivot line. The crossing angle (I am using 91 degrees) is shown by two parallel lines about 1mm apart so I can centre the cantilever. As before I am using a 6X fabric checker. So far so good. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2018 at 8:15am
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The dimensions measured correctly and the resulting alignment sounds great. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |