Bitzie: 24 bit or not?
Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Digital Audio
Forum Name: CD, DVD Audio, DACs, ADCs and Digitizing
Forum Description: The existing (and obsolete?) digital formats
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1918
Printed Date: 27 Mar 2026 at 4:01am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Bitzie: 24 bit or not?
Posted By: Graham Slee
Subject: Bitzie: 24 bit or not?
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2013 at 12:21am
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For those wanting "bit perfect" or "bit exact" playback via the Bitzie... We keep getting asked if the Bitzie can actually receive at 24 bit? 1] Chip data sheet tells us it does. 2] Our own tests: we downloaded ASIO4ALL V2 into Foobar 2000. It was a pain to install onto my machine (Windows XP Professional), but easy on Leo's machine (Windows 7). Selecting ASIO: ASIO4ALL V2 on the preferences output menu plays the file as it is: 24 bit if 24 bit.  That's the point! It plays it as it is. And that's why if in this mode you ask it to play 96kHz, it won't - the Bitzie is 48kHz max. Because it refuses to play 96kHz that shows what's going to the Bitzie is "exact" - it plays up to 24/48 - it doesn't play 24/96 - it plays it "bit perfect/bit exact" as long as it's not over 48kHz. Right click the track being played, and click properties, it shows a dialogue box. Click the properties tab. You'll see the report and in the picture you'll see it is playing out at 24 bit.  Here's a screen shot of the ASIO output drivers on my machine - the first one is for the sound card fitted to this machine.  Whilst ASIO4ALL is selected its icon appears in the task bar - see green triangle in fourth picture and the ASIO display pane on clicking the icon.  Leo has said he will continue this topic with driver download information. If all this is too much just use the regular Foobar 2000 and let it decide. ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Replies:
Posted By: Humboldt
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2013 at 11:24am
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With Windows Vista or Windows 7 (or 8 - which in my opinion is best to avoid) the ASIO4ALL procedure described above is not needed. There is an component in Windows Vista and Windows 7 called WASAPI which makes ASIO unnecessary. However, With Foobar you still have to install an plugin for WASAPI. It is found here: http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_wasapi |
Posted By: leo
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2013 at 7:49pm
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I got the ASIO4ALL main driver from http://www.asio4all.com/ - http://www.asio4all.com/ After installing that I got ASIO for foobar here http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_asio - http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_out_asio Details how to install it for Foobar here http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:How_to_install_a_component - http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Foobar2000:How_to_install_a_component Once installed simply do above post by Graham. I'll give WASAPI a try, thanks for the post Humboldt ------------- Is it classA ??? |
Posted By: suede
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2013 at 8:38pm
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A great feature with WASAPI is it takes full control of the output meaning you're never bothered by annoying bleeps and sounds from other programs (or windows itself) mixing in. Maybe this feature is standard issue with all kernel streaming plugins now though. |
Posted By: gbr2004uk
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2013 at 1:06pm
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I'm using the Bitzie (trial loan so far) with Foobar2000 set to "DS : Speakers(USB Audio CODEC)", but because I had earlier installed WASAPI, there's also WASAPI (two versions, one 'event', the other, 'push') each with Speakers USB CODEC. I've not tried using either of the WASAPI settings yet -- I'm not clear as to whether they have any affect on the Bitzie. I've also been doing some homework and still reading here http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/BitPerfectPlayback.htm - http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/BitPerfectPlayback.htm on Bit-perfect playback. Thanks for any help on the WASAPI + USB CODEC question. all best Brian |
Posted By: Humboldt
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2013 at 8:17pm
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Brian. Use WASAPI. Potentially event style is to prefer, but I don't think it will make any difference with the Bitzie, but set it in event style anyway. Don' t use DS (Direct streaming) WASAPI is better. |
Posted By: gbr2004uk
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2013 at 5:10pm
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Thanks Humboldt. I was trying WASAPI last night comparing it with non WASAPI. I need to have another listen but first impression was that it gave a fuller (and slightly louder) sound over the headphones. Brian
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Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2013 at 5:55pm
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I plan on getting a Bitzie at Christmas (October loan already arranged with Jon) & am a Mac user. Is there anyone here able to advise me on the most suitable hi resolution player for OS X. Thanks ------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: Humboldt
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2013 at 12:49am
I don't understand what you mean with "high resolution" player, but I suppose you mean a player able to play files of non destructive quality, like FLAC or AIFF. Well, the best player in my opinion is Jriver for MAC. I prefer this player because it plays FLAC files without any problems or complicated configurations. Most players for the MAC plattform only handle AIFF in a smooth way. They all mostly play FLAC files, but the library function handle FLAC poorly. Thing is FLAC is open source, AIFF is closed, and therefore AIFF is better to be avoided in my opinion. Sonically you can go with any player. I am very sceptical to the argument that different players make a huge difference, sonically. Many will claim otherwise, but this is just claims. And in the MAC world you tend to find much more of this noncense. For me this is a matter of convinience, and Jriver is best. Period. |
Drewan77 wrote:Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2013 at 6:52am
Thank you, yes i wish to play FLAC files, not MP3 etc so I will try Jriver as you suggest ------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2013 at 10:02am
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I don't play many FLACs from my Mac but when I do I find http://cogx.org/ - Cog works well. Dead simple, no frills. Not a "media centre" though. . . ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: Humboldt
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2013 at 12:35pm
Yes Mr Mini Morris  Cog could certainly be an alternative. It is free while Jriver has to be purchased after the trial period. However, Cog seems to be a dead project. No updates since 2009 what I can see. So in the long run it might be better to stick with something else. My preference for Jriver is first and foremost based on it´s abilities to handle a large collection of music, a large collection of FLAC files that is. If it just about testing the Bitzie during a short period, Cog might be a better alternative. |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2013 at 1:06pm
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I agree, Pär - Cog's fine for occasional use, and for testing with the Bitzie, which is how I tested it - but JRiver would be the right tool for a large collection of files. I've never used it though as my FLAC playback is via Squeezeboxes of varying types. ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2013 at 2:08pm
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I am by no means an expert on these things and appreciate the advice from those of you more knowledgeable than me Having heard a Bitzie briefly, this is very likely to become a permanent fixture once the loan period is through. I intend to use it with a Samsung Galaxy S3 whilst travelling (MP3s) and MacBook Pro for headphone use (FLAC). Jriver sounds the best solution for the MacBook and I will use the free trial during the Bitzie loan period (Up to now I have used something called Vox which does play FLACs OK but this has not been 'serious' listening) ------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: dillon
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2014 at 6:02pm
JRiver MC has so many configurations and it is the number one rated software for sound quality as its internal processing is world class. It can do everything and more. Foobar2000 is the best free alternative. Basic and not as user friendly but does the job fantastically well. On both you will know you have the best possible raw data crunchers in the business. Send those numbers direct to an external DAC and you should be in Hi Fi land.
------------- Nottingham Analogue/Origin Live/ PS Audio/ Burson Audio/GSP/ John Cadman |
Posted By: Sylvain
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 11:42pm
at some sate under that banner we wee taking about Gragham designinh a ADC nd whethe to incorPORATE A DAC OR RIAA..THEN IT MOBED TO USG NOT GOODBUT spDIS BETTER AND AS for time AND i TOOK THE BREAD AND PRECIOU BLOOD TO SAY I WAS HINTED SPRING 2013 THEN EARLY OR LATE SUMME AND mORE RECENTLT FORMALLY SPING 2014,,,,,,ANYMORE MR GRHAMPLEASE CROSS YOUR HEART AT LEAST
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Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2014 at 11:46pm
?. You lost me there! ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 10:31am
Being able to understand the context of what you are saying, I need to point out that existing designs have taken more time than expected. The Majestic DAC is now 2 months late and although a pre-production batch of 5 has been built, further testing to prove its worth has been needed. This is just about done, and with jitter now measuring 116 ps, well worth the delay. The line stage is now 2 years late, but is the next up for design and I must get that done before an ADC. I know there are a number of 'designers' who can get a product together much sooner but these are people who are just data-sheet engineers - they just translate the data-sheet recommendations into a working design. I do a lot more than that to make a better sound - the proof of the pudding... etc. "...longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth..." ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2014 at 9:11pm
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Like Sylvain I am looking forward to a Graham Slee ADC. I'd rather it was done very well by Graham than have a churned out data sheet application, of which there are plenty already. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2014 at 8:51pm
Graham, has the further testing resulted in any changes or are the five pre-production units still the real deal? ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2014 at 12:08am
Ifor, You ask the question we all have in our minds but are perhaps afraid to ask. ------------- Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it. |
Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2014 at 7:41am
I don't which will impress me most, getting it right first time or being so thorough as to fine tune it further. ------------- Ifor ===== Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair. |
Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2014 at 9:09am
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I am all for Graham being as thorough as he wants, however long that takes ------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2014 at 9:11am
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"Good enough" may be good enough for most people but not good enough for Graham . . . ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2014 at 9:28am
Replying to the concerns of many I'm sure - Ivor's question answered.
Yes, the 5 pre-production units are still the real deal - in fact very real. One will be reaching the UK owner's club shortly but is arriving at a pre-order customer's address any time now whilst he awaits the real thing (as per my offer - some accepted, some didn't). Another will be leaving here next week to go to Bob who asked me if it was possible to make a slight alteration to the design - he will be reporting on his findings. That leaves three, one of which I need for photography and to set up automated testing. The other two will go out to Bruce (USA loaner program) and Derek (Europe loaner program), and once production for real starts, the 'photography unit' will be going to Keith (Australian loaner program) after I've finished with it. Why the delays? 1] Yours truly picked up a nasty cold from the Dentists a few weeks ago. 2] Whoever copied the software for the new AP left a checkbox unchecked, which was discovered after 2 weeks of frustration (jitter test). 3] The shaft bushes required to keep the switch control centered on the front panel mysteriously sold out and will not be back in stock until April - the re-engineering to circumvent that, has taken some doing. 4] The production front panels could not be ordered until it could be confirmed that the output level control was -84dB instead of -72dB in its fully ccw position (some customers are extremely pedantic... with only us it seems). 5] January brings me the joy of doing the quarterly EC sales list which breaks the month in two, thanks to Alistair Darling - what difference it made to the UK recovery God only knows!!! It also brings me the double joy of submitting the WEEE return, the triple joy of the VAT return and the quadruple joy of the year end accounts. I don't mind the VAT or the accounts but the other two are just political meddling! That having been said, I think this thread needs to go back on-topic, and I shall do this by declaring the Bitzie is 24 bit - or more correctly stated, accepts 24 bits which is what the test gear outputs. I noted Jon Atkinson of Stereophile rubbished a similar 'chip' for poor performance at 24 bit, but the Bitzie's S/PDIF outputs (coax and optical) measure 0.0012% distortion (THD+N) given a 24 bit input, which doesn't look like poor performance to me. Graham ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2014 at 10:09am
I hope that your customers will appreciate the Majestic, after all the time and effort you've put into it Graham. All this diligence is for their benefit, after all. You seem to be constantly faced with adversity and despite the excellence of your product designs, there will always be those who belittle you, your achievements and your products. Keep soldiering on. The sound quality (v.s pricing) of this latest device is sure to have some of your rivals very unhappy!  ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2014 at 10:20am
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I read that as "keep soldering on . . " ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2014 at 10:25am
------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2014 at 11:23am
I must admit, when I first read it back to myself, I also read it like this. ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 7:38pm
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Going back to the original subject thread - 24 bit or not? I've only had the Bitzie for just over a week and it's already sounding great but I have one niggling issue (as a few have had). Is it 24 bit capable on the Mac or not? The MIDI settings only show me a choice of 16 or 8 bit and Audirvana converts everything to 16/48 max. It does sound great but I want to make sure I have it set up to it's maximum potential.
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 8:16pm
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I don't know how other companies skew their software but the ultimate test is the recognised Audio Precision audio analyser which runs its USB test using ASIO4ALL. Even then I wasn't sure but James Kelly who runs AP in the UK, and is of ARCAM, TAG McLaren Audio and International Audio Group (IAG) engineering fame, made a couple of trips to see me and help me set up the new AP525 analyser. He simply pointed to the screen and said "what's that say?", and it said 24 bits. Perhaps we got it wrong? And perhaps all the others have in that case? ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 8:31pm
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Maybe Apple have it wrong then? Just tried JRiver on the Mac and that reports :- 32bit 2ch 48Khz using Core Audio Even more confused now!! |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 9:05pm
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There is only one format which doesn't confuse... VINYL! ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 9:22pm
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There is only one format that you can hold in the palm of your hand and rely on a very skilled engineer to do all the engineering for you... DIGITAL ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: Humboldt
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 10:09pm
You don´t write wich version of OSX you use, but there is no problem running 24 bit files bit perfect in OSX. |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 10:34pm
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Hi Humbolt, I'm running 10.9 Mavericks or whatever it's called. My other dac reports 24/192 in Audirvana. |
Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 10:48pm
Mavericks is the cause of upset for many audio device drivers. |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 10:58pm
| Which is kind of self defeating as the drivers are built into OSX itself! |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 11:07pm
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Apple products do not care about your computational freedom. ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2014 at 11:22pm
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Whereas PCs running Microsoft feel free to balls up with alarming regularity. |
Posted By: Chris Firth
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 12:35am
I thought we were talking about problems with Mac OS drivers? The problems are what they are, like it or not. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 12:55am
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Oh dear we've gone Mac vs PC. Moving back to topic that is good news about the test gear showing 24 bit. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 1:31am
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Good news for the test gear but not so good for my iMac. I have Audirvana reporting 16bit and JRiver 32bit. False logic but the average is 24
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 7:48am
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The USB chip manufacturer has to provide an 'identity code' at the start of each 'data package' which the (operating system) OS reads (and probably only needs to read once - but that's how USB works...). Most OS have some form of recognition built in for 'generic' hardware CODECs, and the chip manufacturer lists those OS, and I reproduced the list on the system requirements tab. In addition there are devices listed that have been found to work. In the case of your hardware and its OS it may have been decided not to include all known generic CODECs, but perhaps just those who pay the devices manufacturer a fee. Having said that, it doesn't seem to be stopping the Bitzie working with your device, just that it isn't reporting what it is. ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 1:00pm
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While I appreciate it's good to know how kit is performing, and at what levels, since reading Graham's explanation of bit depth and other sources about how digital recording actually works I find that I pay no - or very little - attention to the bit rate/depth of a digital file and every attention to how it actually sounds. The recording and mastering of a file have so much more of an effect on the playback sound quality than bit rate/depth. Having been set free from the tyranny of agonising over "high-res" or not-high-res, I just enjoy the music now. If it sounds good, it IS good. Life is too short to worry about things that don't matter. (Well, that's what I think, obviously YMMV!). [Now I agonise over cartridge choices - but perversely, that's quite enjoyable . . .  ]------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 1:43pm
+1 and the same problem with cartridge choices. ------------- Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it. |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 6:35pm
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Another +1 from me on Bob's wise words. As long as the mastering is done properly, CD specs are enough for optimum sound quality. Graham once said that if digital audio were to be quoted by its phase response instead of its frequency response then it would never be considered high fidelity. With this knowledge, it seems that Graham has tried to use audio electronics to make phase more faithful, instead of copying the uneducated boastfulness of useless specifications advocated by many other manufacturers. Simple listening soon reveals that Graham knows what's important. If HE had been on the team that developed digital audio, he would've changed the world and his digital equipment would sound even better than it already does... ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 7:36pm
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Well the digital OCD in me just wanted the display to read 24/48 but I agree, it's the sounds that count! Thanks to Graham for trying to explain how these things work.
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Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 7:47pm
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Debug info from Audirvana on OSX 10.9 (source was 24/96) Direct Mode audio path
Currently playing in Integer Mode: Device: 2ch Non-mixable linear PCM Interleaved 16bits little endian Signed Integer aligned low in 16bit, 4 bytes per frame @48.0kHz Active Sample Rate: 48.0kHz Hog Mode is on Devices found : 3 List of devices: Device #0: ID 0x2f Built-in Output Manufacturer:Apple Inc. Model UID:AppleHDA:78 UID:AppleHDAEngineOutput:8,0,1,2:0 Device #1: ID 0x55 USB Audio CODEC Manufacturer:Burr-Brown from TI Model UID:USB Audio CODEC :08BB:2902 UID:AppleUSBAudioEngine:Burr-Brown from TI :USB Audio CODEC :6400000:1 Device #2: ID 0x4a BoomDevice Manufacturer:globaldelight Model UID:com_globaldelight_driver_BoomDevice:BoomDevice UID:BoomEngine:0 Preferred device: USB Audio CODEC Model UID:USB Audio CODEC :08BB:2902 UID:AppleUSBAudioEngine:Burr-Brown from TI :USB Audio CODEC :6400000:1 Selected device: ID 0x55 USB Audio CODEC Manufacturer:Burr-Brown from TI Model UID:USB Audio CODEC :08BB:2902 UID:AppleUSBAudioEngine:Burr-Brown from TI :USB Audio CODEC :6400000:1 3 available sample rates up to 48000.0Hz 32000.0 44100.0 48000.0 |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 9:46pm
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I have always said that the Bitzie will receive 24 bits to enable 24 bit files to play into the Bitzie. I have always said the S/PDIF output works at 16 bit. The manufacturer says this about the S/PDIF: "For the playback, all possible data rate source is converted to 16-bit stereo format at the same source data rate." - which is exactly what I said above... ...and I enlisted the AP engineer, himself a DAC designer, to verify it (see earlier reply). An OS can only report the device, configuration and string descriptors the chip manufacturer wrote into it. If it were able to dig deep enough it could tell you it has a digital volume control too! Except that anybody can prove it's an analogue volume control by sliding the assembly out of the box - the descriptors being burnt into the chip not being able to see what I did to the 'human interface'. The Bitzie is not a dedicated follower of fashion (and neither am I). There are USB DACs that will completely satisfy you in the numbers game, but I have never designed by other people's numbers, and I've made sure I've told people exactly that. ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 11:20pm
| I'm not using the S/PDIF output Graham, just the line outs at the front. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 6:41am
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The point being made is "...all possible data rate source is converted..." which verifies 24 bits can be received (echoed by "Uncle Tom Cobley and all"...). What happens after that is summed up by the word "converted".... once it's converted it is just analogue audio frequencies out of one end and S/PDIF at 16 bits out the other... it's had its bits - whatever the number. I am really sorry the chip I chose doesn't have LED outputs to tell you its business. I am really sorry its manufacturer was unable to use the limited descriptors the USB organisation provided to show off. I am really sorry it uses the guaranteed timing adaptive isochronous decoding of the incoming signal intended by USB org for music streaming instead of the "must have" asynchronous decoding people are led to believe is the correct way. It is OK for a coaxial or optical input DAC to use a phase locked loop to lock-on to the incoming (dare I say it) S/PDIF signal, because there is no other way, but it is not OK for for a USB streamer to use adaptive isochronous decoding which is identical, simply because the "heavy hand" of the powerful enterprizes - who need to market their own invention (asynchronous) - say so. In fact, I'm really sorry I got into doing anything with USB at all and then you wouldn't have a Bitzie, and you'd be able to see the "music" instead. ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 8:54am
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No Majestic DAC either and I'm sorry I asked |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 11:58am
Probably a misunderstanding on my part but I thought you were upset with the Bitzie  ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 12:30pm
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No Graham, it's a great product and I've written that on here several times before. I loaned it last year and was lucky enough to loan the Solo ULDE at the same time and that combo has got to be the best I've ever heard from a headphone system! John should verify this if he can remember our encounters. Last year my uncle had a Naim V1 DAC which was getting rave reviews at the time. I tried my cans on the headphone output and it sounded like the music was playing under water. I thought my cans were broken! Anyway, keep making the great products 
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 4:20pm
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I will gladly confirm Stew's listening pleasure from both Bitzie and Solo. We met in supermarket carparks on a number of occasions in 2013 and I heard his praise for the Bitzie. It echoes my own view on ths tiny giant killer of a USB DAC.
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 4:54pm
Sorry for my error and thanks for your support - it is appreciated! ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 5:42pm
(However much I want to!)------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 6:22pm
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I too am delighted with my two Bitzies. The sonic performance is excellent. Can a USB DAC sound any better than this?? I only had one minor niggle with my Bitzie but it doesn't change the fact that it is a saviour of digital audio, especially for an OTG user. Good luck finding something that sounds better after several hours powered on. I have noticed that following a life of ridicule and criticism, Graham has become very defensive of his work even towards people who are not actually condemning his products. ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 6:26pm
As for the rest of the audio reproduction market, be aware that 95% of it is a gold-plated turd.  ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 6:57pm
Thanks John
 |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 7:03pm
I guess my initial query was bourn out of ignorance. I was 'worried' that the Bitzie was downsampling the 24bit files to 16bit as this is what the software was suggesting. No such worries for you though Graham as you know this stuff like the back of your hand. For us mere mortals, it's a minefield. But as others have correctly pointed out, it's the sound and musical pleasure that counts and the Bitzie has both in bucket loads!
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Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 8:24pm
Remember that 24 bits is 20 bits of audio (the other 4 are info-bits). The Bitzie certainly ignores the lowest 4 bits of those 20 bits for conversion to S/PDIF (my reason for labouring the point on S/PDIF), Burr Brown are open about that and so am I and I posted "For the playback, all possible data rate source is converted to 16-bit stereo format at the same source data rate" regarding S/PDIF. But how the chip converts to analogue is one of their deepest secrets, and so is the "adaptive" part of the "adaptive isochronous" decoding - it must be a good variation of isochronous to be able to deliver 0.0025% THD at both 1kHz and 10kHz when separately powered (i.e. not from the dirty USB bus) - if only there was an AP "J-test" for USB jitter... Sometimes a chip is avoided by the masses because the manufacturer will not divulge how it works - which is the case here in USB audio - but Burr Brown are still investing in it as it is now in its E suffix version, keeping up with every OS update, at least in Windows (including 8). Therefore I am not able to say any other than what I (and those I consult with) have found, and that is the Bitzie accepts 24 bits. Whatever way the USB chip achieves its purpose, I know it is extremely tweakable to produce an audio performance few full-blown DACs are capable of. ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: earwiggo
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 9:07pm
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I too have the Bitzie and it has revolutionised my enjoyment of USB/computer music to a level that I could not have imagined. I previously had a very well respected DAC with a headphone amp that was twice the price of the Bitzie but not even half as good. It claimed to be 24/196 but in playback from Foobar at whatever the setting was changed to, it just could not compare with the Bitzie at whatever it came out as with the Bitzie, 16/48 I think. I don't care, the Bitzie was miles better in sound quality and especially so with the remarkable Lautis cable that came in the bundle. I can understand Graham getting a bit upset when questioned about the hype around the bit rate significance, when it is not really these silly numbers that matter, but the sound quality! As we all know, it is a long journey from idea to production and is an unbelievably stressful process. What I see is the stress that poor Graham has been under in getting this far with all the late nights, doubts, financial risks versus some family life and sacrifices. You have done brilliantly Graham, but please keep going as music is a far better place with your products around and you really are a valued designer/manufacturer. Thanks for all that you produce and for allowing this forum to exist. Steve ------------- ...If only I knew that yesterday! |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 9:16pm
I'm pleased my sound-bit found an appreciative audience... ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 9:25pm
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Alas I am sad enough to download and read datasheets for DAC IC's, and to modify some mass produced units. However I share the good sense of everyone else here to judge a DAC on what I hear not what I read. It takes skill and good taste to get involving music out of electronics - we are in the right place for the music! ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: dillon
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 12:10pm
Oh what the heck right...I'm gonna ask - are Bob n Jon implicitly implying not very implicitly at all, that their rather public car park liaisons are conducive to conductive mutual digitally induced orgasms because of Graham Slee??? If so, I can't wait to plug in the loaner Bitzie tomorrow - and share the, not quite illicit anymore, love. Thanks boys! ------------- Nottingham Analogue/Origin Live/ PS Audio/ Burson Audio/GSP/ John Cadman |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2014 at 7:35pm
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Dillon, you need to read more carefully. I met Stewboss and not morris_minor, in the carparks of Sainsburys and Aldi in the Boro. Please enjoy the Bitzie loan. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2014 at 11:20am
Any news on a possible northern roadshow Jon? I really enjoyed our all too brief exchanges in the supermarket car parks ------------- Equipment choices: Playstation 3 SACD, Bitzie DAC, Meridian Explorer DAC, Lautus USB cable, HD250-II, HD650 |
Posted By: dillon
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2014 at 1:02pm
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Arghh sorry boys...mistaken identity is such a bummer. Please Bob don't sue me for defamation of character as I won't be able to afford any more Slee gear. Bitzie has just arrived and will be plugged in asap this afternoon! Stewboss..im keepin well clear. ------------- Nottingham Analogue/Origin Live/ PS Audio/ Burson Audio/GSP/ John Cadman |