Advice: phono pre for Project Debut Carbon
Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Turntable Audio
Forum Name: MM: Moving Magnet | MC: Moving Coil
Forum Description: Learn about the differences between moving magnet and moving coil cartridges here
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1627
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Topic: Advice: phono pre for Project Debut Carbon
Posted By: franz159
Subject: Advice: phono pre for Project Debut Carbon
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 7:23pm
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Hi everybody. I'm new into vinyl and, to begin with, I decided to buy a Project Debut Carbon, which comes with a pre-fitted Ortofon 2M red cartridge. I'm looking for advice on the phono pre-amp: with that TT, would it make sense to buy a Reflex-M or it would be simply "over-spec" and I should maybe look at a GranAmp Special edition? Thanks in advance! Franz ------------- ----------------------------- franz |
Replies:
Posted By: suede
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2012 at 8:59pm
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Hi Franz I'm using a Project Debut Esprit (I think it's more or less the same as the Carbon only a few years older and with an acrylic platter) fitted with the 2m Black cartridge and using a Reflex phono stage and I'm very satisfied with my system and the results I'm getting. I suppose you could go further than that with the Reflex but right now I'm very content myself. Two upgrades that will get you quite far with the Debut are the Speedbox and the "Motor Kit", which is basically just a round shaped belt, new pulley for this belt type and dampening gromits for the motor fastening. This latter upgrade might be standard issue on newer models like the Carbon so check wheter or not your belt is already the round kind, otherwise it's well spent £30. It gets rid of some faint low frequency rumble and I found this simple mod to give a great surge in vividity to the music overall. The Speedbox I highly recommend getting especially if you're also planning to get a good phono stage. It provides a great leap in accuracy and coherency. If you're still unsure what phono stage to get you could always make use of the GSP loan programme and try out the Reflex, or any other stage, for yourself at home. Best wishes Johan |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2012 at 8:09am
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+ 1 for what Johan said. One of my cartridges is an OM40, which I use on a Technics DD parallel tracker, and the depth, dynamics and detail that the Reflex gives is really satisfying. Plus, if you get a more exalted cartridge the Reflex will extract the best from that as well. Go for a moving coil and partner the Reflex M with an Elevator EXP and you'll have a world-beating combo  .But take advantage of the loan scheme to hear for yourself . . .  ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2012 at 6:23pm
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If you feel that the Reflex M is out of your budget you can also get the Green Version with its switched mode supply and upgrade to the PSU1 at a later date. The Gram AMP 2SE is also excellent phono stage but the Reflex M UL is a definite step up. ------------- Steve ------------- Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2012 at 9:06pm
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+1 to the advice given already on the GA 2SE and Reflex M. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: BackinBlack
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2012 at 10:49pm
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I too would recommend that you go for the best you can reasonably afford, the Green Reflex with a later upgrade is a sensible option, but even at the other end of the scale the GA 2SE will bring you the unique GSP sound which is far superior to most other phono stages costing many times more. Best advice is to take advantage of the loan scheme, but once you've heard the best it's difficult to resist. |
Posted By: BrentC
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2013 at 9:34pm
Franz, not to hijack your thread - Johan do you have VTA adjustment on that Project Debut? I have a project carbon Debut Esprit and had read that the black wouldn't be a great idea given the lack of VTA. This is really good news if you are getting the results from the black on this turntable paired with the reflex as I was leaning in the direction myself |
suede wrote:Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2013 at 10:06am
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Hi Brent I notice that in the UK, both the Debut Esprit and Carbon are being sold by various dealers with a 2M Red fitted as standard and this has the same dimensions as the 2M Black. I use a 2M Black (sometimes fitted with a Blue stylus for background listening to extend the life of the 'Black') but with a Rega RP-6 / Reflex-M/PSU1, not Pro-Ject Johans' reply will be interesting because a friend had his dealer fit a 2M Bronze to a Pro-Ject Debut III and it didn't sound right so he changed TT to a Rega from another shop. The original dealer suggested that the Bronze/Black might be beyond the ability of the Debut III (or his abilities to align properly !) I am not really sure about the real importance of VTA because so many records have different thicknesses anyway - 200gm, 180gm and various thinner 'standard' LP's. I have some really great sounding records at all thicknesses so maybe the mastering and quality of the original has far more impact than a few degrees of VTA. I treat each on its own merit and enjoy whatever the vinyl has to offer ------------- Older than I once was, younger than I'll be ............................. Andrew |
Posted By: BrentC
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2013 at 2:12pm
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Thanks Andrew. I had read on another forum that it is possible that the VTA on the carbon might not be 100% for the 2M red, but given that the 2M red was more forgiving / less sensitive it paired well. That persons argument then went on to say that with the 2M Black the VTA had to be spot on to get the best from it and as a result it wouldn't be wise to put it on the carbon.His argument makes sense, just not sure if it is correct? I guess there's a part of me that wants to hear that others are running the 2M black and loving it :) |
Posted By: franz159
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2013 at 7:33pm
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Hi, you made me curious.... so I went looking at my Project Expression III and in all honesty I could not find any way you could set the VTA on it. Maybe it's my ignorance...at the end all initials regulations on my TT were done by a fellow member of HiFiWigWam! Concerning my setup, I have been using a Cambridge Audio 640p until today (Cartridge is an Ortofon 2M Blu), but now.... a GranAmp SE2 is coming in the next few days.... Looking forward to receiving it, since when I compared the CA with a "normal" GranAmp Communicator provided by the loan schema it was the latter to win.... should I expect even better results with the SE2? Thanks Franz ------------- ----------------------------- franz |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2013 at 8:10pm
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Hi Franz, The 2SE will give a better performance than the Communicator. It'll need a couple of weeks of regular use to sound it's best. I'm sure you'll enjoy it! ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2013 at 9:47pm
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The 2SE is much, much better than the 640P IMO. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: suede
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2013 at 11:10pm
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I haven't experienced any problems using the 2M Black with my ProJect Debut, they sound great together. The only thing is that the 2M cartridge was a bit heavier than the OM cartridge I had before so I had to get a new counterweight for the arm in order to be able to close the lid. ------------- Proprius, Reflex M, Solo UL, Bitzie, CuSats & Spatia --------------------------------- Johan |