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Proprius

Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Headphone Audio
Forum Name: Write A Review
Forum Description: Satisfied with your Graham Slee headphone amp? - share your experiences here
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1560
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2024 at 12:14pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Proprius
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Subject: Proprius
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2012 at 9:58pm
First impressions - an outstanding amplifier
The two Proprius amps came on loan with a pair of the new Lautus cables (phono to XLR). I connected mine up to power asap and had my tea (dinner down south) then connected my GX100's and my DAC.
 
I started with a HD violin concerto and the violin sounded real, so did the orchestral parts and the hall acoustic. Onto pop and rock and the soundstage is remarkable. Voices and instruments are all clearly audible, so are the reverbs and other effects, and the sound is room filling. There are sounds around me and the fullness of the sound is remarkable, plenty of body - deep and fast bass.
 
After my GSP phono and headamps, and the Dublin show review I was expecting something special. Proprius is outstanding.
 
I will be sending the Proprius amps and cables onto the next person in a fortnight (PM next week on the arrangements) and I will be missing them.
 


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.



Replies:
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2012 at 10:48pm
This all sounds very satisfying Jon! What amplification were you comparing the Proprius to? And were you using the Lautus cables?

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Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2012 at 7:29am
Thanks Bob. It was intended as a first impression for fellow members based on a quick setup. I can write a more detailed review later.
My current amp is an [my edit] which I like but I didn't do a direct AB comparison because there are a number of factors involved. I was using a pair of homemade phono cables with my amp, which includes a preamp with input switching and a stepped volume control before the actual amplifier stages, whereas I was connecting the DAC straight into the Proprius with new Lautus phono to XLR cables. There is a preamp output from my amp and I may try feeding the Proprius from that with a loan pair of Lautus phono to phono cables if there's time, although I recognise that there would 2 sets of cables involved compared to one with the direct route.
The overall impression is that Graham and co. are right to be proud of the high sound and build quality of the new GSP Proprius amplifier.
 
Jon


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2012 at 8:34am
I didn't mean to pressure you Jon! We've been waiting for this for quite a time and now the Proprius is out in the wild, I, for one, am keen for details  Tongue .

That it should have high sound quality is of course no surprise at all, but it's good to know the manner in which it's delivered . . .

Another question - how sensitive (or otherwise) are your speakers?

Thanks.


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Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2012 at 12:39pm
No worries Bob, I'd be just as eager and I am in hi-fi heaven at the moment.
Sensitivity is 88dB. Monitor Audio GX100's (6 1/5 inch mid/woofer and ribbon tweeter) on mass loaded Partington stands. With the volume controls past 12 o'clock it is very loud in my living room and I'm listening at about 10 o'clock on the volume now.
 
Jon


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2012 at 4:20pm
Thanks Jon . . . Plenty of welly on offer then Smile.

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Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links


Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2012 at 2:23pm
Rather than start a new thread I figure I would add my observations here. I received the package yesterday October 19th, 2012 and set the units up this morning including the Lautus cables. For a source I am using a Logitech Touch and for speakers (burn in) a pair of vintage Minimus 7W from Radio Shack. The Minimus 7W can be picked up from eBay at about $65 USD and IMO they sound very good for their small size.

BTW, I use an small near field speakers since my listening in the apartment (to avoid conflict with she who must be obeyed) is limited to headphones or using the computer as a source in the bedroom. In a couple of weeks I will attempt to move the Prorius to the living room and drive a pair of DCM Time Windows 1A.

The Proprius has been running for about one and a half hours, I have set their volume to max and I am using the variable output of the Logitech Touch to control the volume. At this moment I am wirelessly transmitting the music from the iMac to the Touch and for a DAC I am using the Touch's internal one.

The Proprius and it power supply run cool, heck the Logitech Touch runs much warmer. Currently listening to Ella Fitzgerald and Billy Holiday and very nice sound is coming through the Minimus 7W. I should mention the fit and finish is top notch and very impressed by the Lautus termination. If I was to nit pick it would be that I wish the Lautus were a bit more flexible.

Graham, I do most of my listening via headphones and would appreciate your feedback on using the Proprius to drive:

1. Stax cans via the Stax Energizer boxes like the SRD7.
2. AKG K1000 ear-speakers which are 120 ohm.
3. Orthodynamic Headphones like the Head Direct HE6 or HE500.

In order to drive items 2 and 3 I have a pigtail that goes from RCA's to a 4-Pin balance plug.

I leave you for now with a picture to put it all in perspective. Thanks Graham for this great opportunity.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/w-AGMqy9iJ_u_3xBX2lmBjbw2ArsI7NycGvfkNAQPCo?feat=directlink


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Miguel


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2012 at 8:39pm
After a few days burn-in the combination of the Lautus cables and the Proprius amps is sublime. I am using my Squeezebox Touch going into a DAC and straight into the Proprius amps and going to bed a little later than usual.
 
The Proprius is engaging and full sounding even at low levels. It is tremendous and room filling with the volume turned up.
 


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2012 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:


I am using my Squeezebox Touch going into a DAC and straight into the Proprius amps

Jon, am I missing something or just being a little bit twp? What's doing the preamping?
Ifor


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2012 at 10:34pm
It's a fair question Ifor, I kept it simple. I am going direct from the DAC (2 Volt peak output) to the Proprius amps (575mV rms in for max output) and using the volume controls on the two amps.
 
Very good DAC going straight into great amplifiers. Simple and maximum sound quality. Obviously it means turning the volumes to zero (the Proprius design makes this safe as the manual makes clear)before plugging the Reflex M into the Proprius amps and turning up again.
 
Before passing the amps on I will try the setup using the preamplifier section of my existing amp which has a preamp output. That will make source switching and level balancing easier, although I expect a small drop in sound quality.
 
Jon


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2012 at 11:51pm
33 hours of burn in on the Proprius/Lautus, at this rate I should have 100 hours by Sunday morning. Hope to then switch to the DCM Time Windows 1A (speakers).

Graham, do look forward to your feedback on the Stax Energizer as well as driving the AKG K1000 directly out of the speaker taps.


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Miguel


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 7:06am
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:


plugging the Reflex M into the Proprius amps and turning up again.


How do you plug one Reflex M into two Proprii?

Ifor


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 8:12am
Left output from Reflex goes into the input of one Proprius amp and Reflex's right output into the input on the other Proprius.
 
Jon


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 9:05am
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:



Left output from Reflex goes into the input of one Proprius amp and Reflex's right output into the input on the other Proprius.
 
Jon

How embarrassing! I really couldn't have asked a more stupid question! The only, hopelessly inadequate excuse I can think of is that I had only just woken up.

Twp Ifor


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 7:03pm

No problem Ifor. I have just realised my succinct answer may have seemed facetious, my apologies if so. Jon

 


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

No problem Ifor. I have just realised my succinct answer may have seemed facetious, my apologies if so. Jon


Jon, it didn't seem facetious in any way.

I've only be here a short while, but it's already very apparent how polite, tolerant and helpful all the members are.  Earlier I was reading the exchange between two members debating vinyl vs digital.  It was a joy to read; thought provoking, but never a hint of "you're wrong/I'm right".

It's a credit to all you multi-starred members.  (I almost said 'old timers', but that might offend some). Smile

It's a completely different environment from another forum I joined recently.  Just mentioning that I have a Cyrus CD player got me virtually heckled off the site!!


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by ICL1P ICL1P wrote:

It's a credit to all you multi-starred members.  (I almost said 'old timers', but that might offend some). Smile


Let's call a shovel a shovel... "you're only as old as you feel" and I feel 57 and am 57, which is old. Wink

It's no good telling me otherwise... I had "a long paper round" Ouch


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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:


I feel 57 and am 57, which is old.

Graham, as a 55 year old I have to agree that 57 is sort of getting there.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 10:00pm
Well I'm not as experienced as either of you but the Proprius put a youthful smile on my face! Thank you Graham. Big smile


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 1:01pm
This is my 3rd post in this thread and as I reach the 100 hour mark of burn in a new stage of testing will be done on the Proprius and Lautus. Specifically the amps will be used to drive "special" headphones! By "special" I mean:

1. AKG K1000 ear-speakers.
2. Orthodynamic headphones, Head Direct HE-500

In order to do this I will use a "pig-tail" to go from the speaker outs of the Proprius to a 4-Pin balanced plug as per the picture below. I plan on doing this next stage tomorrow, October 28. More to come …



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Miguel


Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 4:22pm
I guess I was to impatient and had to try the new set up today at about 92 hours of burn in. Started with the Head Direct HE500 and for music I streamed John Coltrane My Favorite Things followed by Equinox. I used apple lossless files from the iMac. Very mellow and warm presentation with tight and strong bass.

I realize the location of the PSU's so close as well as the stacking of the amp plus the mess of wires is not the most audiophile configuration but I really wanted to hear the set up. I will let the unit burn in for another day before posting additional impressions. For now I leave  you with another picture.




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Miguel


Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 12:26pm
Well the Proprius and the Lautus have about 110 hours of burn in. Unfortunately it seems the Proprius is still burning in due to an slight deviation in sound over the last 20 hours or so. Specifically the top end is still somewhat dull and lacking extension when using the HiFiMAN HE500 can.

On the other hand the bass, lower and middle mids are great! The sound is very engaging and musical with a tinge of warmth (as in tubes). More to come.


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Miguel


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 5:41pm
Augmenting Miguel's observations, the loan pair in my house has been powered up for about 250 hours and the sound has changed subtly in the last few days. My ribbon tweeters are getting a good work out on percussion and strings and there is plenty of detail on close miked singers.
The sound is getting better each day. I wish I had another 200 hours and I wasn't sending the amps on but want the next person in the club (BiB) next week to have the same enjoyment I have. However I could fix that by paying GSP some money... when are the Proprius amps going into production please Graham?
 
The Proprius is very, very good.
 
Jon


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

...when are the Proprius amps going into production please Graham?


On sale now...

As usual it takes around 2 weeks from order to delivery.


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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 10:24pm
Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:


Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

...when are the Proprius amps going into production please Graham?


On sale now...

As usual it takes around 2 weeks from order to delivery.

Jon, if you buy the Proprii what will you be replacing.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2012 at 8:03am
My current amp is the 840A v2, Ifor.


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2012 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

After a few days burn-in the combination of the Lautus cables and the Proprius amps is sublime. I am using my Squeezebox Touch going into a DAC and straight into the Proprius amps and going to bed a little later than usual.
 
The Proprius is engaging and full sounding even at low levels. It is tremendous and room filling with the volume turned up.
 


So there is a good performance at low levels then, my amps are a little lacking in this respect and I have to turn them up before I start to get body and impact.

Anecdotaly then the amps are at least on a par to your current amp? I have wondered about that model before now as a possible replacement.

 


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Steve

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Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 29 Oct 2012 at 9:54pm
It is a hard comparison to make because I can't connect my DAC straight into the 840A's power amps. Its preamp is versatile but it puts several op amps and half a dozen generic electrolytic caps in the way. However I really liked it before I heard the Proprius amps!
I simply connected my DAC (or the Reflex M) to the Proprius and used the amps' volume controls. I am ready to build a cheap switching unit to handle the input changes if I decide to buy a pair of Proprius amps.
 
The Proprius is at least on a par with the 840Av2, in fact I would say a pair of the monoblocks is better. The detail is remarkable with clear sweet mid and treble and the bass is full but tight. Dynamic and really musical sound, it is very good indeed.
 
[edit]
And now the amps and the Lautus phono/XLR leads are boxed up Cry and labelled to go out in the post tomorrow. It is someone else's turn next. Approve
 
Please PM me to get in the Proprius queue.
 


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 11:23am
The Proprius reached 260 hours and I have taken a non-speaker use for these amps. Specifically driving orthodynamic cans. I value musicality, soundstage and smoothness amongst the most important qualities in music reproduction. In other words I have to be able to listen for hours on end without feeling "ear fatigue". Well, the Proprius delivers and then some. For those who have not used orthodynamic cans they can exhibit a bit of treble energy that can make for a very un-involving listening experience, not so with the Proprius.

-------------
Miguel


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 3:13pm
Thank you Miguel for discovering another UniqueSellingPoint for the Proprius.

Graham


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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 9:51pm
My own pair of Proprius amps is due to arrive this week, woo woo!
 
As previously advised I've built a passive stereo preamp with 4 phono inputs switching to unbalanced XLR out, via an Alps Blue stereo pot. It's burning in now and still a little trebly. It's hardly a GSP Aria preamp but will do the job for now.
 


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2012 at 8:55pm
And they sound great.


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Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: shashirao
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2023 at 7:12pm
I have now crossed the 50 hour playback mark with my Proprius mono amps. I have connected my Esoteric DV50 CD player as source and the KEF LS50 bookshelves as speakers

The amps have already disappeared into the background - and so have the KEFs. Its just music and sounds wafting around the room with no equipment drawing attention to itself. I might as well store the Proprius inside the sideboard.

The sound is absolutely as it should be - not overtly digital/loud, the acoustic instruments have the warmth and depth. There is ambience - as in it feels like sitting in a recording room/small performance hall. The volume scales up and down smoothly across all the equipment - no jarring or harsh sounds - except loudness. For a change, I am turning the volume lower since it does not take much to fill up the room.

So I guess my concerns of obtaining enough volume from Proprius are at rest. Of course I would experiment with a floorstanding speaker in the future - especially the Magnepan LRS speakers.

I have not yet played anything analogue - reel tape player and vinyl is next on cards.

And after waiting, reading, reviewing and comparing, I have pulled the trigger on the Majestic. I cannot wait for the Majestic to drive the volume on the Proprius. I have also ordered all those cables including Libran, Spatial, Lataus USB...which means more comparison and satisfaction on the cards.

The only downside, given the size/shape and high gloss of the KEF speakers, I will not be installing the Proprius on the speakers. But the reduction in cable clutter is totally amazing. I will be able to get away with just speakers on top of the entertainment center...nothing to see here.

Goes back to my original nit with Graham - he needs to make his equipment huge and flashy with those big truck grills, dazzling LED lights, a smoke generator, maybe a bubble maker, some additional weight of copper wound transformers, dials and lots of labels of audio standards. That stuff sells!!

Meanwhile I am happy with my selection of solid state silver boxes that give me the perfect acoustic instrument playback...do not miss any tubes and bells and whistles. My product collection now includes: the Revelation C, Accession MM, Accession MC, Proprius, Majestic (soon), Enigma, Lataus, Cusat, Spatial,


Posted By: Mikeh
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2023 at 9:26pm
Hi Shashi, GS equipment should come with a health warning, it's adictive!  The Majestic compliments Proprius and Accession to make a wonderful music reproduction.  Happy listening.
Mike


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Mike

Technics sl1210g with Victor U-2
Accession MM, Majestic + Proprius, Solo ULDE
Cambridge Audio CXC CD player
Lindemann Limetree Bridge streamer
Harbeth P3ESR XD paired with 2x REL t5x


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2023 at 10:03pm
Thank you for your positive appraisal. I will not be able to add suggested "whistles and bells" since I have recently retired, and now it's up to John C as to which direction things go.

The Proprius paved the way to a better understanding of how a.c.-coupled power amplifiers work best - at least to my understanding. As is usual, the technical subtleties are not easily described. I intend to continue sharing the knowledge on the "7eventies indulgence."


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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps


Posted By: ICL1P
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2023 at 10:07pm
[QUOTE=shashirao]
I might as well store the Proprius inside the sideboard.[QUOTE]
I do!


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Ifor
=====
Reflex M & ACCESSION M, CuSat50, Majestic DAC, a Proprius pair.


Posted By: Sylvain
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2023 at 10:45pm
For what it's worth, my pair of Proprius is piggy back to a early 1990's BW 620 much tweaked 8inch cone with a bass radiator inside a 30 litre Volume box and very balanced in musicality, and loud enough to fill a 3.5 metre by 5.5 metre lounge sitting room. Acoustic music recordings of late 70's to 90's mellow and sweet tone and is there to stay until I can no longer feel the sheer music to enrich my soul .....But Electronic Pre-amp on my DAC output 2.7 V is the weak link. Yes, libran interconnect from Proprius to the 30 litre Speaker saves for expense Speaker cable and the beauty of two mono amps to create the sound stage is super value.  


Posted By: Ernie
Date Posted: 10 Apr 2023 at 1:57pm
Had my Proprius amps and Majestic since 2015. The Proprius amps are mounted directly on the back of my speakers (Frugal Horn XLs), this made a nice improvement.

I’ve had no desire to upgrade any of the amplification (inc. the Accession MM from 2017) or cables (Libran and Lautus). The sound is so sweet no matter what I’m playing.

I put an Enigma on the Majestic and I’m thinking of doing the same with the Accession.


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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.



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