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Built a power supply for my Squeezebox Touch

Printed From: Graham Slee at Hifi System Components
Category: DIY AUDIO
Forum Name: Owner's Hot-Mods
Forum Description: Tell us how and why you hot-modded your audio gear
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1355
Printed Date: 19 Feb 2020 at 2:16am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Built a power supply for my Squeezebox Touch
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Subject: Built a power supply for my Squeezebox Touch
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2012 at 8:37pm
Thanks to WH Smith I saw a favourable review of a replacement power supply for the Squeezebox Touch in a Hifi magazine. Interestingly it used two boxes with two stages of regulation... an approach which I have seen (and heard!) used very well in some excellent British hifi equipment.
Anyway I decided to DIY something using a 9 volt SMPS unit and adding a small metal box with a low noise 5 volt regulator and a load of Panasonic FC electrolytics. It gave a surprising improvement in the stereo image and HF detail when playing CD rips and high bit rate FLACs.
 
I'm currently using the box as a heatsink, breadboarded on the outside so I could check the temperature rise (from the regulator's 4 volt drop x 2-3 amps) was reasonable. It's going inside the box at the weekend. If anyone's interested in the details please let me know and I will take some pictures.
 


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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.



Replies:
Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2012 at 1:32am
I went with two 5 aH 12 volt SLA batteries via a regulator to 5 volts. It was made by Vinnie of Red Wine Audio. Love the sound of the Touch.

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Miguel


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 12:24am
Thanks Miguel, that sounds like a very good zero noise option. The Touch is really handy. Simple touchscreen GUI and it connects easily to a DAC or direct into an analogue input.
 
How do you access the music files please?
 


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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 6:12pm
I use wi-fi to connect to the hard drive on the iMac. However I have also used a 32 Gb SD card on various occasions. There is also the option on connecting a HD to the Touch but I have not done so yet.

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Miguel


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 7:53pm
Thansk Miguel. I'm using my domestic 100 mbps network to link it to my PC running the Squeezebox server. I stick or SD card with FLAC was very good. I tried the HD option but  it took ages to scan and I realised I missed the imported playlists from ITunes!
And I rebuilt the PSU inside a small aluminium box this morning and ran it for some hours to check the temperatures. It was a squeeze and fiddly to fit. Warm but not hot, sounds better than the stock 5 volt PSU in my opinion.
 


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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2012 at 9:41pm
Definite improvement in clarity and stereo image. A few Panasonic FC's and a commercially available 7905 replacement (PM if you want the name) in a metal box (PiL anyone?) is well worth the DIY effort.


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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2012 at 10:32pm
Don't know if anyone else has seen Hifi Choice's pages on fine tuning the Squeezebox Touch. It made me chuckle as they must have been doing the same stuff (better PSU, EDO and STTB) at the same time I was and probably using the same online resources.
To be fair it is a helpful guide and it was their streamer comparison a few months back that inspired my Touch purchase.
 


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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 11:32am
My Touch broke 6 months after I bought it, it is on its way back for a warranty replacement. The wi-fi card stopped working.

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Miguel


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 8:28pm
That's a pity Miguel, I heard that was a handy feature. I never used the wifi and actually switched it and the IR RC off using the Toolbox. Hope you get yours replaced quickly. Jon


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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2012 at 8:30pm
The Touch's own DAC is okay but connecting to an external DAC helps. It makes the unit a handy transport, especially if you use the touchscreen and 2-3 metre cables.


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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 1:24pm
Yes, I miss the Touch that sits on my night stand to feed an stereo radio via rca's. At least the cost to ship the unit back was paid by Logitech. Thanks.

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Miguel


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2012 at 8:05pm
They are fun and very convenient. I would miss mine.
Is it just me, Bob, and Miguel who have a Touch? And how good will it sound through the forthcoming GSP DAC?


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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2014 at 2:08pm
I now have a 3 metre long Cusat50 cable linking my Squeezebox Touch to my DAC. It has improved the sound of the music I play and replaced another manufacturer's digital cable.



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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Drewan77
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2014 at 4:25pm
I use a Lautus 1.5m digital from the Touch into the DAC (soon to be replaced by Majestic). As with Jon, it was also a good step up from the supposedly high end cable I used previously


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Older than I once was, younger than I'll be
.............................
Andrew


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2014 at 4:42pm
Nice one Jon, I have my Squeezebox Touch linked to the trial Majestic DAC via a CuSat50 1.5 m coaxial cable. The Majestic is then linked to a Solo UL DE by two CuSat50 0.6 m RCA cables which feed a pair of Grado PS 1000 headphones. The sound is absolutely fantastic! The only thing I'm missing, in order to complete the system, is a good graduated linear power supply for the Squeezebox Touch. Ahhh! Hi-fi heaven!

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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2014 at 7:47pm
Digital cables do make a difference to the music in my experience.

I agree a PSU upgrade will improve your sound Phil. I decided on a cost effective two-box approach with a decent SMPS putting 12 volts into a DIY box, which has a low noise regulator with a large reservoir of low impedance capacitors and bypass caps. Definite improvement on the stock PSU that makes the music clearer and detailed not harsh.



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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2014 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

Digital cables do make a difference to the music in my experience.

I agree a PSU upgrade will improve your sound Phil. I decided on a cost effective two-box approach with a decent SMPS putting 12 volts into a DIY box, which has a low noise regulator with a large reservoir of low impedance capacitors and bypass caps. Definite improvement on the stock PSU that makes the music clearer and detailed not harsh.



I'm jealous of your ability to make your own PSU. I have no expertise in electronics at all. I will have to buy one or get someone to make one up for me. I have seen a Paul Haynes PSU available secondhand on an auction site but I'm not sure how much a secondhand one is worth. Perhaps I can persuade Graham or John to knock one up for me.

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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: fixedwheel
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2014 at 6:01pm
Would anyone reckon that a DIY step down be a viable product for a DAK kit? Like the Genera.

I can see the obvious liability issues for a DIY mains based PSUs, but wonder about something that could be fed with a 12v or 24v wall wart, and then do a far better job.

Adjustability would be great for flexibility.

John


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2015 at 6:17pm
In response to a good question on how I did it, I found the notebook from 2012. Lucky as I had forgotten some details...

The Touch PSU says 5V 3A but I doubted 15 watts was going into the Touch as it doesn't run that hot. I measured the current draw of my Touch with and ammeter and it drew between 370 and 380mA when running, less when the display was off whilst playing tracks. Even with the screen brightness on full and the analogue and digital output running it peaked at just over 500mA. So I had planned to use a LM7805 fixed 5 volt regulator (max steady current 750mA and peak 2A) fed from a linear supply of 9 or 10 volts dc.

Then I remembered I had a [supplier name omitted by me] 5 volt low noise regulator inside a CA 840C and so swapped back for the stock 7805 and used that low noise regulator in my Touch PSU. I fitted this regulator into a small (120mm long, 50mm wide, 20mm deep) black aluminium case from Maplin, bolting it to the case panel and using heatsink compound. Inside I added some 2,200uF 25V Panasonic FC caps I had in my parts box and ran the output to a 5.5mm plug into the Touch. I bought a Maplin SMPS supply and set it on 9 volts dc and this feeds the 5 volt regulator.

My quick heat dissipation calculation suggested 4 degrees per watt or better to keep the regulator temperature down and I hoped the small box would do this. I stress tested it with a 8 ohm 10 watt load resistor (drawing double the current of my Touch) and it was quite warm not too hot to touch. So I fitted the new PSU to the Touch to find the case temperature was fine (27-28 degrees) and it sounded very good. That was in 2012 and it has run fine since then.

In hindsight an LM7805 would have done the job just as well.



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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2015 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

In response to a good question on how I did it, I found the notebook from 2012. Lucky as I had forgotten some details...

The Touch PSU says 5V 3A but I doubted 15 watts was going into the Touch as it doesn't run that hot. I measured the current draw of my Touch with and ammeter and it drew between 370 and 380mA when running, less when the display was off whilst playing tracks. Even with the screen brightness on full and the analogue and digital output running it peaked at just over 500mA. So I had planned to use a LM7805 fixed 5 volt regulator (max steady current 750mA and peak 2A) fed from a linear supply of 9 or 10 volts dc.

Then I remembered I had a [supplier name omitted by me] 5 volt low noise regulator inside a CA 840C and so swapped back for the stock 7805 and used that low noise regulator in my Touch PSU. I fitted this regulator into a small (120mm long, 50mm wide, 20mm deep) black aluminium case from Maplin, bolting it to the case panel and using heatsink compound. Inside I added some 2,200uF 25V Panasonic FC caps I had in my parts box and ran the output to a 5.5mm plug into the Touch. I bought a Maplin SMPS supply and set it on 9 volts dc and this feeds the 5 volt regulator.

My quick heat dissipation calculation suggested 4 degrees per watt or better to keep the regulator temperature down and I hoped the small box would do this. I stress tested it with a 8 ohm 10 watt load resistor (drawing double the current of my Touch) and it was quite warm not too hot to touch. So I fitted the new PSU to the Touch to find the case temperature was fine (27-28 degrees) and it sounded very good. That was in 2012 and it has run fine since then.

In hindsight an LM7805 would have done the job just as well.


Thanks for bringing this up again Jon. This is still the one component I need to make my system even better (if that's possible!). I'm afraid that I haven't been on the site much just lately. I've had a sudden recent spate of illness amongst my carers (not all at once) which has forced three of them to resign and have acquired 2 more. In addition to that we have been having the house decorated from top to bottom. Talk about disruption! I've only just got my hi-fi back. Even so, I must get new squeezebox touch power supply soon.





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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2015 at 6:50pm
It's good to hear from you Phil. I posted this after someone else asked about my Touch PSU. Based on my experience replacing the original Logitech PSU I think you will hear an improvement although I found subsequently that plugging my Touch into the Majestic DAC improved the sound a lot.



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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2015 at 4:24pm
I have to agree with you about the Majestic Jon. When I got mine it was like lifting a veil from the music! To anyone that hasn't heard digital music through it don't wait, sell the wife, sell the car and get one! It's a fantastic piece of kit that makes a big, big difference! I was told by a PMC (speakers) representative that it was better than the one they use for demonstration purposes and theirs cost over £10,000! Just to show you how much I think of it I bought two! One for my system in the lounge and one for my headphone set up in the bedroom.

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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2015 at 8:56pm
Thanks Phil, I think your review of the Majestic influenced me to save for my own and hearing the loan one sealed the deal for me. My Accession phono stage and the Michell 'Gorbe' are dominating my evening listening at the moment. The Touch/Majestic combo is enjoyed in the mornings and it compares very well to top notch vinyl.



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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 8:01pm
I am resurrecting this thread with an interesting update about the DIY power supply I built for my Squeezebox Touch. My hearing is back to its 50-something normal state after being extremely bunged up for a couple of weeks. It's taken ear syringing and worse to clear my head and chest, minor illness really but it removed some of the pleasure from listening to music.

Anyway inspired by Graham's link from the 1970's hifi thread to a very fine Dutch speaker design website's capacitor tasting notes, I pulled a 2u2 Monacor crossover capacitor from my spares box and soldered it in place of the 10uF electrolytic on the output of my 5 volt regulator. I appreciate it won't go up to radio frequencies but why not try something different for half an hour's work that can be reversed easily enough? At the same time I fitted a shielded cable (clearly inspired by the Enigma cable) in place of the bell wire I was using before.

I thought the initial improvement I heard was probably new parts but I think it has got better since then. More dynamic and more separation between instruments and keeping the bass depth from before. Perhaps it's silly that such a small change is so easily heard and I wish I had tried it before.

Apologies if this is technical gibberish to most readers and the usual accepting no responsibility if you try this at home.




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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Richardl60
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2019 at 9:20pm
The further improvement sounds a bit like burn in of the caps, cable and the connections getting bedded in Jon?

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The Source turntable, Audiomods V micrometer, Dynavector XX2-2, Leema Antila 2Seco CD player, TDL studio 1.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 8:08am
Yes I agree about burn-in. I wondered if a 'shiny' new parts sound was creating the apparent improvement in clarity so it would be short lived. My changes were intended to reduce interference and they do seem to have helped.

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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 1:49pm
All active regulators are actually amplifiers used for DC purposes in controlling a series pass transistor to give the right voltage, and use negative feedback to constantly monitor for drift and loading errors. As they are able to correct for errors instantaneously and show output impedance up to 1MHz they are ac amplifiers (see page 8 first image http://www.mit.edu/~6.301/LM340.pdf - http://www.mit.edu/~6.301/LM340.pdf ).

They too have phase and gain margins and might not (do not) have the stability an old timer like me would insist on. The result is they ring, but you won't find any mention of it anywhere, save for what one EMC consultant discovered (covered in EMC Techniques for Electronic Engineers by Keith Armstrong).

I remember some Philips application notes from the 90s where a number of fixes are used on regulator outputs without stating any reasons for it. The big giveaway is when using the 79 series which will and does oscillate with the "wrong" capacitor values.

Obviously the output is swamped by the first large electrolytic it encounters but these are inductive at high frequencies allowing any oscillation or ringing to occur. In addition there is wiring or PCB trace inductance in series, so it isn't surprising that experimentation with output capacitor values and types brings different results.



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Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2019 at 6:23pm
Thank you Graham, that explains a lot for me. I built the PSU about 7 years ago based on circuits I had seen in service manuals and a skim of the datasheets. The electrolytic I used was well praised elsewhere although I can see from the impedance vs frequency for the regulator that it probably had limited effect at the high end, and with the ringing regulator issues you described I can easily imagine the capacitor was impacting the signal quality. And have heard the difference with the new part, as you expected.



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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2019 at 9:29pm
I wish that I had taken my DIY 5 Volt power supply unit over to Phil's last weekend...



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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

I wish that I had taken my DIY 5 Volt power supply unit over to Phil's last weekend...


Yes, that would have been nice!


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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2019 at 9:09pm
It didn't stop us enjoying some great music and putting the World to right!



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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.


Posted By: mhamilton
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2019 at 2:04am
Hi all .... just joined the Forum as I'm in process to sign up for a loaner of Accession to evaluate.

Its good to see that others are still using the Squeezebox Touch.  
I never thought about replacing the power supply on it as I only use it as a digital source
to feed my DAC.   But it sounds like it's worth a try.

I built these regulated power supplies many years back, time to resurrect them.
Used low-noise  Linear Technology regulators.  Nothing tricky in the topology.  



Posted By: msphil
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2019 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by mhamilton mhamilton wrote:

Hi all .... just joined the Forum as I'm in process to sign up for a loaner of Accession to evaluate.

Its good to see that others are still using the Squeezebox Touch.  
I never thought about replacing the power supply on it as I only use it as a digital source
to feed my DAC.   But it sounds like it's worth a try.

I built these regulated power supplies many years back, time to resurrect them.
Used low-noise  Linear Technology regulators.  Nothing tricky in the topology.  

I find that the squeezebox touch is a fantastic, cost-effective, piece of kit for transferring music from my Apple iMac computer. Like you I only use it as a digital source to feed my Majestic DAC preamp. I find that there is a noticeable improvement in sound if I use a decent power supply (such as the one that Graham is about to release for members of the forum).

As a new member of the forum I can assure you that all Grahams kit is of outstanding quality. Apart from my squeezebox touch and my PMC speakers every piece of audio equipment I have, including cables, is designed and made by Grahams company. The soundIt is well integrated and really fantastic!


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'You are, through your soul not your body, a human being.'


Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2019 at 7:42pm
Another vote for Graham Slee's hifi and the Squeezebox Touch.

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Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.



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