DAC for Solo UL and HD650?
Printed From: Graham Slee Hifi System Components
Category: Headphone Audio
Forum Name: Graham Slee Headphone Amps
Forum Description: Questions, answers and product information zone for Graham Slee Headphone Amplifiers
URL: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1267
Printed Date: 27 Mar 2026 at 1:05am
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Topic: DAC for Solo UL and HD650?
Posted By: DrHouse
Subject: DAC for Solo UL and HD650?
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 7:52pm
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Was considering a Schiit Bifrost, but am open to suggestions, in the similar price range. Thanks!
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Replies:
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 9:33pm
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The new Audiolab DAC is very good.
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: DrHouse
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 10:58pm
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@Fatmangolf If only! considering an imminent purchase of the solo UL, the M-DAC is out of my price bracket. What Hi Fi had some very good things to say about it though.
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Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 19 Dec 2011 at 11:54pm
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Then buy an inexpensive dac to tie you over till you can buy what you want. Are you in the USA? If so check out the new Grant Dac11, it is an unit I wan to try as well as the Audio-GD NFB-10SE. ------------- Miguel |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 12:46am
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I have been using a modified Beresford Caiman fed by coax from a Terratec soundcard as a computer based source and was very happy with its performance feeding the Solo UL and ATH-W1000. The modifications are fairly extensive, but they can be done in UK by Tirna Electronics and add around 100 GBP to the cost. Worth noting that it responded positively to the use of a quality coax interconnect from the soundcard, giving better performance than either the optical or USB inputs. |
Posted By: DrHouse
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 2:24pm
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Those mentioned DACs are pretty hard to get here in the UK, and I really do not want to have to go down any modification routes. just one nice solid box and be done. Exceptional USB implementation is a must. Has anyone used the Arcam rDac? I'm afraid the combo with a UL/650 might be too warm/lush.
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 5:36pm
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Sorry I can now see my earlier post was not very helpful!
What do you want to plug into the DAC please? The Cambridge Audio DACMagic does a pretty good job on SPDIF with several inputs for £200+ new, this may be worth a look on e-bay.
Exceptional USB performance may be harder on a budget. Many of the DACS seem to stop at 48kHz and 16 bit.
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: suede
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 5:53pm
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I absolutely love my Bladelius USB DAC. It is a pure USB DAC which supports up to 24/192 via USB! It takes its power from the computer which I was a bit sceptical towards at first. But the filtering inside must work magic as I think the sound is fantastically clean and airy yet with good punch and drive. At least for its price, it's fairly cheap (being hifi that is) at about £400 (in Sweden at least). If you're looking for a USB dac I suggest you check it out if you can. I think it works very well with the UL too. Cheers! Johan |
Posted By: DrHouse
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 9:25pm
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@ FMG - the main source is a pc, so USB is vital. Dacmagic reviews have said it has so-so performance, so thats turned me away. As asynchronous USB is important for best performance, any suggestions for DACs with this? So far Ive seen the Arcam rDac, HRT music streamer ii+, Musical Fidelity M1DAC, and the DACport. These all go to 24 bit 96khz (maybe not the M1DAC) @suede - I can't seem to find that DAC anywhere in the UK :( |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2011 at 11:39pm
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Yes I can confirm the DACMagic USB point, it is the weakest input technically and musically. I modified my unit to have Coax, Coax, Optical as the three inputs.
I had a quick look at the Schiit Bifrost. How much would it could cost to import to the UK, is it in the £300-400 range? The Bladelius seems good from Johan's recommendation.
What did you think of the DACs you listed for USB use? Were they a big step up from what you use now?
Miguel may have a point about an economic (i.e. cheap) fix for the short term. Your Solo UL and 650 combo is obviously worth a decent DAC.
Is an outboard USB DAC essential or could you fit an internal DAC/good quality soundcard inside your PC? I use an M-Audio Delta 2496 for vinyl rips and it does a decent job on playback, if that helps. It has SPDIF outputs on coax as well. I think it was about £60 when I got it and is probably still under £100. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 12:32am
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On a PC, higher resolution bitrates such as 24/96 will require specialised drivers (at least under XP) as the generic USB audio device is rated for USB1.1, which will not support the required data rate in duplex mode. Terratec achieve it with their Phase 26 USB interface by using simplex mode and their own drivers. It appears, from a lot of reading, that the best USB solutions involve intermediary converters such as the JKeny modded Hiface, the Audiophileo etc. any of these will blow your budget severely. The Beresford for example is 24/96 capable but not via USB - (having just compared that to the coax using 16/44 material I could not recommend it for USB use). I tend to agree with fmg that the best option could be to use a capable soundcard offering S/PDIF out, Asus Xonar, M-Audio or a secondhand Terratec DMX 6 fire, should all come in relatively cheaply. If you could find one, the ESI Juli@ could also be a very good option as a soundcard (that is what is used in the Auraliti music server). |
Posted By: DrHouse
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 1:45am
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Odd then that brands such as Arcam advertise 24/96 support over USB. Despite this, the majority of my music is 16 bit (itunes/foobar), so overall quality is more important than support in this case I guess. What exactly would I need to do to make my PC support 24/96? I have windows 7, which from my memory supports USB 2.0 which should support 24/96. (correct me if wrong) My PC is really not that great and does not warrant a soundcard change. It's actually a laptop. I'd much prefer an external setup so that I also have trhe option for use on my PS3 etc. Maybe in the future when I get a proper pc worth upgrading I will upgrade to a nice soundcard. @FMG - Thanks, DACmagic ruled out. The Schiit Bifrost including postage is roughly between £300-350, so very similar to the others. And You are right, the last thing I want is a so-so DAC acting as a bottleneck on the system. Would it therefore be ideal to get a nice DAC now e.g. an Audiolab M-DAC, then get the UL at a later date? I am aiming to get a nice DAC asap so it is ready for when you send me the Solo UL model from the loaner program. Also, when I said I´d seen the DACs I unfortunately meant only online  . I am yet to find a place that offers comprehensive headphone amps and dacs to test, and am relying on reviews and user opinions. Many thanks to all posting thus far, extremely helpful. Great forum here!
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Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 6:41am
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Noting what you say, I rechecked and found the following site you may find helpful http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_DAC_Async.htm" rel="nofollow - http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_DAC_Async.htm and they do say that 24/96 is possible over USB1.1 I therefore tried using the windows direct sound driver in Foobar, or at least to playback 24/96 files with the direct sound USB device selected as output, I was successful in that recognisable music was forthcoming from the DAC. What is not apparently possible, is to do so using ASIO4all, which only seems to support 32 - 48 KHz sampling rates. Since I always use ASIO drivers, (one of the advantages of semi-pro soundcards is that they nearly always come with ASIO drivers) I have suspicions as to what the direct sound driver may have been doing to the data between Foobar and the DAC (which has no indicator for the incoming sample rate). Checking the TI datasheet for the receiver chip used shows it to have a max sample rate of 48KHz and to be limited to 16 bits, that would suggest that even if the DS driver did transmit the full 24/96 that it would not have passed from the USB receiver to the DAC proper. Further reading of the datasheet for that particular chip reveals that regardless of the rate fed, the output is limited to 16/48. These details are pertinent to the PCM2902B used in the Caiman as a USB receiver and will not necessarily be applicable to DACs using different USB receivers. Bottom line of all this is that USB 2.0 audio on Windows does require custom drivers, but that that is only necessary for higher rates than 24/96. Have to say the Bladelius does look rather interesting, particularly in a minimalist, lack of clutter way, pity they are so coy about where to get one. It would be a shame to hobble the UL with a so-so source, it does deserve the best you can give it. |
Posted By: DrHouse
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 11:57am
So then would you say it's worth putting of the UL for a short while so that I could get an audiolab M-DAC? If I do, I still save £300 on the not as good DAC in the very long term.
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tg wrote:Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 12:33pm
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I do not know if you have bought your Senns or not yet, if I were wanting music and needing to economise short term, I might consider a set of relatively inexpensive cans to start off, say Grado SR80 or Audio Technica AT-700, something quite acceptable but not top drawer. That would leave perhaps enough to go for the (presumably - I have not heard it) better DAC you seem set on. |
Posted By: DrHouse
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 1:08pm
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@ tg - Yes Ive had the HD650 for a few months now. But from what you said, the DAC should be purchased first, then the amp. The Audiolab M-DAC looks very promising. Supports 24/96 USB, and has gotten favourable comments all over the web and here.
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 1:09pm
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This may help Doctor. The M-DAC has a headphone amp built in and would do the job until you are ready to upgrade to a Solo UL. I second tg's advice on investing to getting the source right.
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: ServerBaboon
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 2:07pm
Just muddy the waters again the HRT streamers have had some good reviews. There are threee versions if you discount the iversion one, Base, + and Pro. As with all USB only dacs though you lose the flexibility having tthe Coax and optical inputs.HRT Music Streamer II + USB DAC------------- Steve ------------- Various bits of GSP Kit ..well two so far, unless you count the cables that is. |
Posted By: suede
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 3:03pm
If you're opting for a usb dac my advice is you might want to look for a purely usb dac. Other dacs seem to focus on the more serious means of connection = you paying more for what you don't use than what you do.
Yes that's true but I still think the minimalist approach is better if you're settled on usb connection. Cheers! Johan |
Posted By: DrHouse
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2011 at 4:35pm
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@ FMG - I was wondering what the headphone labelled output was... this is now a very viable option for the while that I don't have the UL. I really hope though that its ample to drive an HD650 with ease. It's a temporary measure, so no big deal.
@ suede + ServerBaboon -
If they had similar performance on USB, I'd be 50 50 between the two (pretty much) but online reviews say otherwise. But, obviously for double the price. I do like having the option of using this with a PS3/CD player in the future, and that's where the M-DACs outstanding coaxial would come in. Plus, the built in amp means I can still listen to my tunes in the meanwhile. Its looking like the audiolab so far... Again Thanks to all posting |
Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2011 at 11:29am
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I would buy one item at a time of the highest quality I could afford. To buy multiple items that are not what I would really want creates a need to upgrade. ------------- Miguel |
Posted By: DrHouse
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2011 at 10:40pm
| Yes exactly - tbh the M-DAC is for me a very audacious audio purchase. Most would agree it's an exceptional DAC correct? It got audio product of the year from What HiFi. The next level (I'm guessing) would be the Benchmark DAC1, and I'm just not sure it justifies the extra £500ish over the Audiolab. |
Posted By: mrarroyo
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2011 at 1:15am
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I did not care for the Benchmark sound, actually I have owned a Monarchy Audio DAC NM24 since the summer of 2008 and IMO it is a very nice sounding unit. It can be found on sale for less than it's $1,600 USD MSRP. ------------- Miguel |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2011 at 1:10pm
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Hi Doctor, having plugged the M-DAC I shall now add a complication. The new DACMagic Plus has a headphone amp and a much improved USB connection according to Richer Sounds - please see the text quoted below.
"The USB connection for your computer is still there but on the latest DacMagic it now supports 24-bit transfer for "better than CD quality". This means that music files stored on your PC, laptop or NAS drive in top 24/192 quality can be streamed, uncompressed, through the DacMagic Plus and enhanced by its Digital to Analogue Conversion."
At £350 it's probably worth taking your headphones and laptop for a demo. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: tg [RIP]
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2011 at 1:39pm
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Interesting, thanks for the heads-up Jon. Checking the CA website, they offer a USB2.0 driver and setup instructions for using ASIO with Foobar and the USB2.0 driver. Would be good to know if its performance on redbook standard 16/44 over USB is improved with the, presumably, new receiver chip. |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2011 at 7:37pm
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I did the same tg and wondered what chip they are now using. It says 96/24 on USB1 with 192/24 avilable over USB2 with ASIO driver. Listening is believing. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: DrHouse
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2011 at 11:11pm
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@ FMG - After combing through the Head Fi forums, the DacMagic Plus ain't that great. Back to the M-DAC... for now. getting confirmation on the USB performance first. Can anyone here shed some light on the M-DAC's USB performance? Will in the near future hopefully get a PC with an optical/coaxial output.
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Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 24 Dec 2011 at 11:52pm
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@DrH - I was just trying to help you with a cheaper alternative to my original suggestion of the M-DAC.
I have an 8200CD and think the Audiolab DAC sounds very good indeed, via USB or coax or optical. And in the M-DAC it has a class A headphone amp. Please audition it and let us know what you think.
------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: DrHouse
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2011 at 1:12am
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I think I'm gonna bite the bullet with the M-DAC. Am pending a few responses on Head-Fi, but it seems the best sub-1000 DAC I can find. If I order it before new year, hopefully it will come early in the first week of Jan alongside the UL from you guys courtesy of Jon! Looking forward to some sleepless nights... After all this help, putting up impressions is the least I can do
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Posted By: on-ga-ku
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2011 at 9:05am
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At the risk of a "buy what I have!" style post, I found the "Valab TDA1543 NOS USB Re-Clock DAC MK-1 Luxury Version" ( google for seller ) well priced and the sound is nicer than the more modern DACs I have elsewhere. Works fine with USB or optical, and reclocks. Not expensive. Paul |
Posted By: on-ga-ku
Date Posted: 25 Dec 2011 at 9:29am
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Oh and Merry Christmas ! ( The main celebration here is New Year, I almost forgot today  )Paul |
Posted By: DrHouse
Date Posted: 29 Dec 2011 at 3:34pm
| anybody heard the Burson DA 160? similar price to the M-DAC |
Posted By: yltai
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2012 at 2:11pm
| I use the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC coupled with the nifty MF V Link asynchronous USB SPDIF converter. In my opinion, provides a nice clean source for the Solo UL to do its work. |
Posted By: dillon
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2013 at 8:14pm
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I have the MDac..and its superb feeding my Novo. On a sorta DAC to GS headamp related question, my next upgrade will be to a Solo of some sort. I intend to give the Novo to my kid brother as he loves it and wont leave me alone the li'l so and so. He has a Furutech ADL GT40 headamp/dac/preamp which has an unfixed maximum analogue line output of 1mV. Is this ok to use with the Novo? And if so, I assume he puts up the Furutech volume all the way up and use the Novo for volume control? He has Senn HD 650s. Cheers! ------------- Nottingham Analogue/Origin Live/ PS Audio/ Burson Audio/GSP/ John Cadman |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 5:37am
That will work fine and I assume he's been doing that anyway? The two volume controls can be set to any position he likes to be honest. As long as he's happy with the results, that's all that matters. Graham ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: dillon
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 7:24am
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"That will work fine and I assume he's been doing that anyway? The two volume controls can be set to any position he likes to be honest. As long as he's happy with the results, that's all that matters." To be honest I hadn't myself thought too much about the balance of the two volume controls on my MDac ----> Novo set up. Just thought to leave the MDac volume at maximum and Novo for control at present and haven't experimented at all, thinking its best feeding maximum juice to the Novo to play with? Don't you just hate this Forum and GS in general?? There I was all very happy and dippy with my Novo which I was only given under a year ago and here we go already - GS Upgraditis strikes. A rather nice bonus off the better half means I can look at the Solo range - to be fed by my Audiolab MDac and feeding recently acquired and modified Senn HD650s. And to think I started here not so long now - with a rather puny Grado SR60 and not much else!!!!! I think I really hate Graham now  ------------- Nottingham Analogue/Origin Live/ PS Audio/ Burson Audio/GSP/ John Cadman |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 9:03am
Well that's OK then As for volume control settings much depends on where they are in a particular circuit. If it comes before a differential arrangement BJT input (like an op-amp or discrete implementation) you will find that full-up and on loud passages the sound is a bit in your face, whilst at a lower setting it sounds more balanced. Therefore best to play and find what suits best. ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: dillon
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 9:16am
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Got it Graham. I wondered why some of my music was sounding well too full on at times! I do like my music at lower volumes too. That way I get to enjoy all the minute details. Will experiment like you advise - although I don't have a bleedin' clue what you're technically talking about...BJT bleedin' inputs and whatsis? Never mind, who needs techno when I get the everyman version from ya anyway! Now that, I can understand. ------------- Nottingham Analogue/Origin Live/ PS Audio/ Burson Audio/GSP/ John Cadman |
Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 9:56am
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Judging by your signature, you have quite a few pieces of equipment so you could condense this down via selling to generate funds for... ahem... GSP amplification. Refine your selection through sound comparisons. HD650 seems to be quite frequency skewed in its presentation so maybe consider using funds to search for a more transparent headphone. I'm just giving you Upgraditis ideas in case you're not 100% happy with what you're hearing. ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: dillon
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 10:58am
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Hi Ember Thanks for that..good advice. Let me be clear, I am more than happy with my stereo setup. But the Linn Axis is definitely the weak link. The Naim amps with Meridian CDP is gorgeous so no issues there. The ProAc speakers are great but I can upgrade those if I wish. My journey at present is to maximise my headphone satisfaction. So really the next option I want is a top notch head amp that surpasses my Novo hence my looking at the Solo options. As to phones, I have to say I adore the lush laidback Senn 650 coloured sound! I don't mind a little colouration here and there as I dont analyse my music for absolute neutrality...and I am a bit of a bass head who likes bass impact. I have experience now of several high end phones - Stax 007, Hifiman HE 500/5LE, Audeze LCD 2 etc..even the LCD 3. The LCD 2 and 3 were phenomenal in the deep bass, but they killed my neck after a half hour and the soundstage wss smaller than I like grrr. So for my tastes I keep coming back to the 650 as it has the balance of comfort and sound. Those others are maybe better in this and that respect - but not by enough of a margin imho. So basically I actually need all my bits of equipment for the 3 domains of my listening - living room stereo, home headphone listening and on the move portable usage. Any one I dump would require a direct replacement. So apart from upgrading my headphone amp I don't see what else I could change? Of course its an option to sell off the MDac for a GS one and I may well do that to fund this. I'm darned sure Graham's Proprius are magical...are you suggesting demoing those as a Naim replacement? Must say its a a tempting proposition. Regards ------------- Nottingham Analogue/Origin Live/ PS Audio/ Burson Audio/GSP/ John Cadman |
Posted By: LOINER
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 2:29pm
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DILLON I also love my hd 650 through my ulde and am more than happy with this setup Why don't you try the loaner system and borrow an ulde for yourself but I will warn you be prepared to shell out for one ------------- STUART SOLO ULTRA LINEAR DIAMOND EDITION LAUTUS DUAL MONO 1.5M INTERCONNECTS GRAM AMP 2SE |
Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 2:31pm
Oops, wrong post
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Posted By: Stewboss
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 2:32pm
The best sub-£1000 DAC that I've heard (or know of) is the Chord Qute. Not the best in terms of connectivity but it's a fantastic product for the price. I briefly had it on demo with a G. Slee headphone amp and the results were amazing.
I'm eargerly awaiting the Majestic dac to see if Graham can beat it !!
I'm currently using the Meridian Explorer as dac / amp with Senn HD650 and the HD250 from N.Ember and this is a great solution too.
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Posted By: Ash
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 2:33pm
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Ah, you're enjoying your HD250II then Stuart? ^__^ ------------- We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. |
Posted By: dillon
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 2:47pm
Hey there Yes that is exactly my plan! Will need to wait till the new year tho cos of bleedin xmas lol. I know I'm gonna buy the thing because.....afterwards I doubt if I could live with the Novo at all. I'm not very patient once I hear something I like. ------------- Nottingham Analogue/Origin Live/ PS Audio/ Burson Audio/GSP/ John Cadman |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 3:16pm
 ------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2013 at 9:53pm
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I think the Proprius amps are outstanding but let your ears decide Dillon. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: dillon
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2013 at 9:54am
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Thanks for your input all. I kinda have now settled on demoing the Solo UDLE as im not one for incremental upgrades and I would want a big jump or nothing at all. Knowing also that I wont need to upgrade that component any further so can enjoy that for a long long while..possibly forever. Logical upgrades in that domain would then be headphones. As to stereo amplification I will wait as I have house moves to sort out next year. As a longtime Naim disciple. ..I have to say it will take something very special to get me out of that set up. Although I have read Graham's blog on real world power usage, I just cant get my head around a 25 watt amp outmuscling the venerable Naim NAP250? Regards ------------- Nottingham Analogue/Origin Live/ PS Audio/ Burson Audio/GSP/ John Cadman |
Posted By: Graham Slee
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2013 at 10:23am
100W into 8, or 25W into 8 - what's the difference? OK, say the speakers are 85dB sensitivity, so you get 85dB sound pressure at 1W. Both amps do 1W so no difference up to 85dB. A 25W amp increases the decibels by 14dB to 99dB. A 100W amp increases the decibels by 20dB to 105dB. Difference 6dB. As a doubling of distance away from the speakers results in a loss of 6dB, the Proprius will be like sitting twice the distance away from the speakers as you'd be with the "250" - when operated at maximum power. Not much then? Hi-Fi Plus went to Dublin High End 2012 and witnessed the Proprius alongside 250W class A monoblocks and wrote "Despite the EC amps being several times more powerful, the Slees lost no sense of energy and dynamism." ...lost no sense of energy and dynamism. The loaner program lets people try our products at home without obligation to allow them to judge for themselves. Graham ------------- That none should be able to park up and enjoy the view without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps |
Posted By: dillon
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2013 at 11:20am
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Aha! Now that makes absolute sense to a non engineer like me. A lovely explanation Graham...and the statement about Mr Proprius living easy with those 250 watt EC monoblocks certainly pricks up the ears. You see for people like me who know their music..live it and want equipment to do it justice, the engineering and other technical expertise sounds good..but means nothing when it comes to deciding on gear. Straight up info like the above makes sense to me. It will make sense to hundreds of others like me brought up on bigger specs. is better etc. My brain tells me I'm listening to a powerful Naim system cos it says 100 watts rms on the tin...my brain will go into meltdown if it said 25 watt rms no? I get it. That prejudice of my generation (I'm the Punk/Post Punk generation of 1977) means I looked at the wattage on the Proprius when it came out - and ran a mile. Even though I knew the quality would be top! Oh boy. My wallet will probably hate you more than my wife does at the end of this Graham. ------------- Nottingham Analogue/Origin Live/ PS Audio/ Burson Audio/GSP/ John Cadman |
Posted By: morris_minor
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2013 at 4:06pm
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I think most of us here have learnt a lot about the technicalities of audio - I know I certainly have. And it's been a rather sobering feeling to face up to the fact that I'd been misunderstanding a great deal about audio specifications, especially digital audio. The bigger-the-number-the-better brigade have a lot to answer for in foisting poorly specified, poorly performing kit on the great unwashed with seemingly logical marketing-speak mumbo jumbo. Now I've climbed down from the soapbox, I'll say that my Proprii replaced a much more powerful (in terms of watts) AV amp when I switched to an AV processor/pre-amp. There was just as much oomph (a technical term) in terms of sound pressure, but an altogether different quality - with depth, dynamics and detail all in a different, and better, ball park. Movies sound great, and music has improved enormously, with another level coming along when I replaced the speaker cable connecting my PMCs up with Graham's Spatia set. I suggest you set aside some of your audio-upgrade budget for something to placate your wife, though it's quite likely she'll hear the difference . . . . . . and your bank manager will nod sagely at your choice of equipment. (Maybe  ).------------- Bob Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
Posted By: dillon
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2013 at 5:43pm
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Ah the ole venerable morris minor..love it! Thank you for the heads up on the wifey strategy but my cunning plan is simpler: keep her wholly satisfied wiv a jolly good ole Roger. Works wonders I promise ya man. Okies I've inadvertently strayed from the poor OPs thread! Suffice to say I very much look forward to demoing the Solo UDLE soon...and later hopefully the Proprii, alobg with Mr G's new Preamp and big DAC. My ProAc Studio 140 are 91db anyway so will go loud enuff to shake my 30 x 25 foot space I hope. And the wifey will be paid in full no worries. The bank manager I don't actually fancy so.... ------------- Nottingham Analogue/Origin Live/ PS Audio/ Burson Audio/GSP/ John Cadman |
Posted By: Fatmangolf
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2013 at 10:37pm
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Please pm me when you want to borrow any of the equipment and I will do my best to help with that part of it. ------------- Jon Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
Posted By: dillon
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2013 at 9:31am
Hi Jon. Many thanks! I look forward to it. Will be in the new year sometime and I would like very much to loan the UDLE with PSU1 at this point. The rest can wait for later as I am in no hurry. My long term aim is to replace my MDAC with a GS DAC and then move on to the Proprii and a potential GS Preamp. I am no fanboy of any particular company - even my Naim set up can go if I find the Proprii better suited to me.  Regards Dil ------------- Nottingham Analogue/Origin Live/ PS Audio/ Burson Audio/GSP/ John Cadman |
Posted By: marshmid
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2013 at 10:59am
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Hi DilMy system has a number of similarities with yours viz. Linn turntable, NAC 72 and NAP250. I borrowed a Graham Slee Reflex M phono stage a few months ago to compare with that in my NAC 72. The Reflex blew the Naim phono stage away so effectively that I immediately bought a Reflex M and PSU1. I wrote on this subject in the Phono Preamp sub-forum about 6 months ago. So if you have a reasonable vinyl collection, I suggest you borrow a GS Phono stage. You may find a good reason to play all that vinyl again. I'm assuming your NAC 82 will have the same phono boards as in the NAC 72. I'm glad you are not going to compare the NAP250 with Proprii for some time. I think I can predict the likely answer and am not yet ready to spend more cash. Marsh
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Posted By: dillon
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2013 at 12:07pm
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Hi Marsh Excellent. Thank you for that - as a previous/present Naim owner your opinion is valuable. To be honest my primary listening sourced are now PC FLACs and the Meridian CDP through the Novo. My living room stereo set up has been safely stored in the attic due to new arrivals in the family lol, and I wont be looking to upgrade my Vinyl setup for a wee while yet. If so the Axis will need to be replaced as it is showing its age and trying to upgrade components on the Axis seems pointless. I don't think Linn's budget versions of their TTs actually worked too well to be honest! Lets face it..its not quite a Sondek is it? Oh boy..your final sentence sounds like a subliminal message on the positive merits of the Proprii in relation to my Naims - thus the better half sure is gonna kill ya, mate. You have no one to blame but yourself no? Soooo, my short term plan for home headphone pleasure now looks solid: New GS DAC of some sort ----> A Solo of some sort ---->HD650. Which in a rather roundabout but interesting way brings me elegantly back on thread no? Cheers Dil ------------- Nottingham Analogue/Origin Live/ PS Audio/ Burson Audio/GSP/ John Cadman |