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Open to all owners plus those contemplating the purchase of a Graham Slee HiFi System Components audio product and wishing to use this forum's loaner program: join here (Rules on posting can be found here)

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GLT7497 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Aug 2022 at 9:48pm
Hi All, 

This is the first audio discussion forum  I have joined, after lurking for years, gleaming info. However, I now feel is the time to clarify my overwhelming confusion with regards to external phono stages. 

I currently have an integrated Marantz PM14 SE (Special Edition) Amplifier. I have the corresponding Marantz Turntable (TT15 S1), which is a Clearaudio design housing the Satisfy tonearm with the moving magnet clearaudio virtuoso cart. As per normal, there comes a point at which, I start to wonder whether I can squeeze better sonics from the current set up, when spinning a few records. I turned my focus to an external phono stage. I am currently very happy with the amp and turntable, so I do not want to start changing those out.

I have been fortunate enough to loan the Cyrus Signature with external power pack and John (from the forum) is kindly sending me the Accension (SP?), with two external power packs to test as well. So it will be an interesting comparison between the two phono stages.

However, having played with the various settings on the Cyrus, I can say that I hear very little difference in the integrated amps phono stage and the external phono stage. I feel the only parameter that has made a difference in terms of 'air' and 'space' in the music is the capacitance setting. 

As this is my first time testing an external phono stage, I more than prepared to be 'burnt at the stake' in terms of missing the joys of an external phono amp, but I cannot seem to really hear/feel the changes, that would make me turn this decision from a nice to have to a must have purchase.

Having chatted to John, he is sending out additional splitter cables to further raise the capacitance to above and beyond the current Cyrus offering, which tops out at 220pf. I appreciate that there is a point at which the capacitance will produce too much brightness and sizzle, but I am interested to hear what it may sound like with capacitance above 220pf.

If there is a marked improvement above 220pf, I suppose the big question becomes why an external phono stage? Could I not just increase the capacitance of the turntable cables and be done with it?

Am I missing something special here or is my hearing just shot to pieces!?

Your thoughts and explanations are most welcome.

Thank you 

Grant


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Graham Slee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2022 at 12:32am
Firstly, we don't allow burning at the stake or crucifixion or anything like that. Nor do we allow ridicule when it comes to people who aren't steady on their feet at the beginning (or new beginning) of the difficult journey towards improving their musical lot (we leave that to the other forums who can do it better than we could ever do).

Secondly, I don't see how a 0.4H inductance cartridge needs any more than its stated 100pF. OK, we do make a beginners phono stage (the Communicator) which has a "nice cuddly" 220pF, which allows a bit of upper mid peaking, because it sounds nice and is forgiving of budget cartridges and harshness.

If we cannot bring anything better to the party than what you already have, then that's not your problem, it's ours. Other manufacturers might feel differently, and going on some of the marketing tripe about "purity", I'm sure they must feel that they're god's gift. I don't.

That's why we are willing to lend out our things for you to play with, but I will ask that you don't bother with playing about with capacitive loading and just stay with the cartridge makers recommendation, and just let the stage do its job for the two weeks.

Do as you wish with your other stage and the built in one, but please appraise what we do as it is intended to work. The more swapping about you do, the more you'll miss what the stage can do, because it will only lead to a confused mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2022 at 9:55pm
Clearaudio MM carts are simply based on an older AT MM cartridge design (AT95). CA just puts a wooden or metal housing around the cart and uses whatever styli they order from their supplier, depending on the specific model of cartridge. Some models get a fancy extreme cut and others get a basic elliptical stylus with an aluminum cantilever.

Now, I can tell you from experience that I agree with Graham. These types of cartridges don't need extra capacitance loading really. Between the 100pf at the phono preamp and probably another 100pf or so in cabling and internal wiring you get a grand total of 200pf give or take. That will put you right where you need to be with these types of cartridges.

My 2 cents.
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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