MM or MC ?

jrhughes wrote: Hi Drewan, ....did you reach 1.75g purely because you found that's where it was best behaved, or did you nudge it up a bit so you could swap Black with Blue stylus and not have to keep altering the VTF? Jason

On my Rega turntable/ 2M Black I originally used the standard geometry (Stevenson) at 1.5g but about 6 months ago I bought a Hi Fi News test LP and a digital scales because I felt I could improve the sound. It was at a time that I had changed a lot of my system, adding some large, dynamic OB speakers. Vinyl was sounding inferior to CD and FLAC and that should not be !

I could not get the stylus to pass the last two tracking tests so I thought I would change to Baerwald geometry and try that. At first, using the original 1.5g it passed the penultimate one but still struggled with the last. Upping the force to 1.75g eventually did the trick and I now have a really fantastic sound across the whole of an LP, absolutely no mistracking and recently adding a GS Reflex I am really happy again. There is also a Lautus interconnect coming soon as a result of the excellent loan scheme.

The spare Blue stylus was added after all this and I do not fiddle with the tracking force - it sounds perfectly good without any change & it isn't used for high concentration listening. I am convinced that perfecting the geometry has a very significant impact (cart is now close to the front of the headshell, minutely angled inwards, previously about 3mm further back)

I am also 56y old and with a collection numbering 1000s Lps and even more CD/Digital, I'm sure I won't possibly play anything enough to wear it out before I shuffle. I do believe the stuff about a slightly higher force being preferable, rather than slight mistracking which can cause more damage.

... and apologies to Paul for hijacking the thread.

Paul P wrote: Hello I have a Pro-ject Experience 2 Turntable with a Pro-ject Phono Box SE 11 and a Ortofon Blue Cartridge that came with the Deck. I want to upgrade now to either a Reflex C Phono Amp with a Ortofon Rondo Blue MC Cartridge or a Reflex M with a Ortofon 2M Black Cartridge. I'm not sure what to go for .Any help would be appreciated and also other suggestions as well .Thanks.

The big question is do you want stay with mm/mi or do you want move up the mc ladder if your long term goals are MC then getting a Reflex C and the Rondo would save on the cost of a step up stage at a later date which you would need if you had the Reflex M.

N.B. Although I am sure Graham has intimated that Reflex M + Elevator has the a slight edge and coupled with variable input loading perhaps there would be a small advantages to this.

Since  I started on a path of green Reflex M and upgrades I have been on an mm path which for me is fine as I have set a limit on what I want to spend partly budget and partly the fear of drunken listening sessions (clumsy needle bending) and according to HiFi World the Black is as good if not better than comparably priced mc cartridges. 

However this is not the cartridge for woolly vinyl romance its a smooth clean sounding cartridge with a good top end and it let's you know that El Camino is a bad recording but the quality is such that the music and energy still shines through.

I did consider changing my 2m Black to a Soundsmith or Music Maker cartridge for a change, I still wonder what an MC would sound like, but the inability to listen to hear them and the fact that a 2m Black stylus was at least £150 cheaper meant that I am still a 2M black listener.

Since I have not had that many cartridges all I can say is that the 2M Black is good but not for everyone.

Below is a link to a blog by a guy who has listened to the whole of the 2M range and compares them with the Ortofon Rondo Red, he also has a Project turntable. Some of his comments may be based on hist not using the right phono stage though

He seems to have stopped updating his blog which is a bit worrying as he was ill and he maybe can't use his computer anymore. 

http://www.theapplechap.webspace.virginmedia.com/TheAppleChap/Blog/Entries/2012/2/23_Eva luating_the_Ortofon_Rondo_Red_and_Denon_103R.html

Edited by ServerBaboon - 23 Jun 2013 at 10:51am

Thanks for that informative report on the Ortofon range. I'm still not sure what to buy !Should I buy the Phono Amp first ? The Phono Amp's partnered with the Rondo Blue or the Ortofon Black 2M are similar in price but which should I buy? I listen to a lot of 60's and 70's along with Rock but not much in the way of Dance or Hip -Hop .Any idea's ? I f I go down the MM route I could keep buy a Reflex first then upgrade to the Black or Bronze later ? Thanks again on this ongoing but very interesting topic.