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Majestic DAC impressions

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Graham Slee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 6:52am
After spending too many years chasing variables before I realised I was doing it, the penny eventually dropped. How many times do you hear a proper explanation about burn-in? Before TNT's Geoff Husband explained it to me I was completely unaware of it. I received that explanation early on in my venture, and after testing my own abilities to detect it, I became convinced enough to research the possibility that it was a tangible thing.

Those who know me realise that I will never believe any "technical information" given by the audiophile comunity. Mainly it is embroidery lacking any scientific foundation. I therefore look for industrial explanations, and know where the true sources of information tend to hang out. Why I know is because I spent most of my years in industrial electronics working with/for companies where things wouldn't work if based on the blarney eminating from the audiophile community. I'll quickly do a bit of name dropping: Plessey; Siemens; Cable and Wireless; Ferranti, and other lesser known companies.

The older layman's understanding of burn-in equates to the warm-up of valved equipment, and so from their point of view solid-state doesn't need any warm-up. This is far from true. In my search for evidence I found a reliable resource from Wall Street listed Analog Devices Inc (ADI), who have been supplying most industrial sectors with semiconductors for 52 years.

A search on "analog devices burn in" will pull up "http://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/design-handbooks/Data-Conversion-Handbook/Chapter9.pdf", and the layman will immediately realise it isn't written for him - whereas audiophile blarney is - and so it is written for industry, and so makes sense to engineers. The techniques therefore work.

I've tried to explain burn-in (or the complex settling of components which make up a circuit) in an understandable way, but it is often condemned as make-believe by audiophile flat earthers including quite a few hifi businessmen.

So believe it if you want.

Burn-in is just one of the variables, and to conclude this section on burn-in I must state that burn-in is not a one-off process. Components in turned-off equipment quickly "try" to revert to their "natural" state, and hence can take a number of hours or days to get "back to work" when power is applied again.

Other variables include: the choice of other system components; and how we listen, in particular, the room we listen in.

Do we bother about "burn-in" with other system components? What factors have we used in selecting other system components? Do we know or even care how our room interacts with our choice of loudspeakers? The last question should be one of the most important ones, and is why I develop a lot of my designs using headphones of a specific known quality to prevent them having a "signature".

However, I am told my designs have a signature - that they sound "analogue". I will take that as a compliment. I will leave you with this thought: "is bird song digital?".

Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand...
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Ash View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 8:54am
My experience with Graham Slee products is that I have not been able to detect a frequency or tonal signature that is untrue. In my opinion, in terms of frequency emphasis, they are as flat as a pancake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richardl60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 3:21pm
As to burn in yes my ears can detect differences but as has been commented elsewhere on the forum if it cannot be measured it doesn't exist - is this something which can be measured or is it down to ears alone Graham?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wiscos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 5:36pm
Perhaps there is already at least one example I can think of where temperature control applied to electronics exists - namely in some of the ludicrously upmarket external 'clocks' that provide timing to DACs. I guess if temperature is important then warming up must be too as most components will get warmer as they operate.
Solid state is definitively not impervious to such things, so I bet there must be some way of measuring it.
I also believe your ears adjust to loud noises over time and thereby your ears, brain, perception warms up one way or another.
Finally, based on this ill-considered dump of nonsense (mine, nit anyone else's) we know that superconductors and absolute zero exist so some sort of impact of use, temperature, whatever will definitely impact things.
Humidity too! Now, have I started a totally separate thread? Do we need to ensure correct humidity and perhaps atmospheric pressure too... aaarghhhhhh.....!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richardl60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2017 at 6:37pm
You are correct re adjusting and tuning in to a sound. If you are used to a bright thin sound, then a normal balance(whatever that is will probably sound dull and heavy) but it does take some time to acclimatise to a new sound.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2017 at 1:06pm
I agree about burn-in changing the sound and suppose you could record a test track early on then record it again after burn-in. You could compare the recording signals and see what shows up. Obviously the recording equipment would be a consideration. Don't we listen to music to get away from worrying about this kind of thing?
Jon

Open mind and ears, whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2017 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by Wiscos Wiscos wrote:

...I bet there must be some way of measuring it.


The PDF I pointed refers to measurements and was written because all thses things have a bearing on performance, otherwise Analog Devices would not have wasted its time dealing with it. High performance audio doesn't happen by chance.
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