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Lack of Gain Settings? |
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Robnpg
Senior Member Joined: 29 May 2020 Location: Chicago, IL Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Posted: 30 May 2020 at 3:49pm |
Noob question here. Most of the phono stages I’ve looked at From other brands have Selectable Gain settings. I noticed the Accession and other GSP line members do not. Is this a cause for concern? A weakness? Or this there a philosophy behind it?
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Graham Slee
Admin Group Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16298 |
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Neither.
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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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patientot
Senior Member Joined: 28 Nov 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1525 |
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You don't need all those gain settings. I had two different switchable gain units and there was only one gain setting I ever used despite having half a dozen different cartridges. My GS Reflex has fixed gain, but works with any MM/MI cartridge I've had. No problem, I just turn up the volume on my amp a little for the ones that have a little lower output. Try it and you'll see.
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SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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Graham Slee
Admin Group Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16298 |
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It rather depends on what you're after regarding your vinyl listening, and not everybody is the same.
Take Westminster Choir, Festival Te Deum by Benjamin Britten. Although my copy is not on vinyl (it's a FLAC), it demonstrates the holographic - or not - characteristic of this piece dependant on the characteristics of the electronics reproducing it. If my 65-year-old hearing can tell the difference between a warmed up power amplifier, then that same amplifier after being turned off, and then back on again - some characteristics of the electronic circuitry must have changed. Any disturbance changes a system component's characteristics, including changes in ambient temperature and mains voltage variations over time. But when we come to the exact frequency response tuning of a phono stage, and we decide to go and make a change to the gain of the circuit, it isn't just a mild, characteristic change. Switching from one level to another changes the frequency response. It might be incremental, but we have changed that characteristic. However, we have also changed the component characteristics. To change the gain to another setting implies that redundant components exist. Those components are out of use most of the time, but when selected, they must adjust to new conditions. In the case of a passive interstage equalised phono stage (the majority), the gain stage having the alteration in gain no longer has the same characteristics. Changing gain implies a difference in loop gain, and such a stage no longer has the same input and output impedance. Driving a passive EQ section with a different source impedance changes the EQ: this was partly why tone controls became so unpopular, and no matter how phono EQ is done, it is precisely the same as tone controls, except fixed. However, once you introduce gain control (switched or variable), the curve of the EQ changes with it. This is why there are specialised products (such as ours) which are made within tight tolerances to reproduce the music, all other things equal (which generally aren't) to the same standard as the one sold to the next customer. That's how I, as a designer, choose to do my job. |
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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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BAK
Senior Member Joined: 14 Mar 2010 Location: Kentucky, USA Status: Offline Points: 1744 |
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Graham's designs account for the EQ being constant with fixed gain stages where the EQ is affected.
The gain of each stage is designed for the average of the requirement for each stage needed and also made to have more than enough headroom to account for hot passages. The level controls incorporated in the Accession (M and C) are buffered in such a way that the level control itself cannot upset the EQ needed, ie... the frequency response of the unit is not affected by adjusting the level control. This is the same design for the Solo, Majestic DAC, and the Proprius level controls. |
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Bruce
AT-14SA, Pickering XV-15, Hana EL, Technics SL-1600MK2, Lautus, Majestic DAC, Technics SH-8055 spectrum analyzer, Eminence Beta8A custom cabs; Proprius & Reflex M or C, Enjoy Life your way! |
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Robnpg
Senior Member Joined: 29 May 2020 Location: Chicago, IL Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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Great info folks! Can’t wait to get an Accession in my hands.
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zyss
New Member Joined: 04 Nov 2013 Location: St. Petersburg Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Meetoo, I was wondering whether the gain of my excellent Revelation M is excessive for my system. I drive my power amp directly from it and have to attenuate the signal by about 20dB (using passive attenuator). I understand from Graham's reply that a variable gain in a phono stage has its problems. But would a low-gain phono stage, with a fixed gain of 21dB, produce the same result as the existing Revelation M with its 41dB minus 20dB of attenuation I apply afterwards? I am aware that phono stages with gain less than 35dB are probably not commercially available. Is there a reason for that?
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