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Hello, Looking For A new Preamp

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Graham Slee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2018 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by JohnnySH JohnnySH wrote:

oh my gosh what were the sound engineers on!


I only knew what they were on in the mid 70s....

Parallel roads then? Interesting. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2018 at 9:53am
The point I was making about the Rega decks was more about isolation rather than it being so terrible using stepper motors.

A proper stepper motor is used for positional accuracy on such as CNC driller routers. I once had a Dorniver Micromat for drilling and routing PCBs. The type of stepper motor used by certain turntables would have been far from accurate for such use.

See post: https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/forum/turntable-speed-control_topic4359_post54685.html#54685

As I have stated, the steps can be felt when the pulley is "rolled" between finger and thumb, but commutating which is similar is also felt with DC motors. In fact, motors are difficult things altogether.

In all fairness, these little tin-can steppers could be the way to go provided the vibration could be isolated, and there are a number of turntables which use pod mounted motors in a bid to isolate them from the main table.

I have recently been working on such a proprietary turntable. Although it has to be spun up to start, the resulting bass is more "wholesome" than that from my Planar 3 (no matter which version of modification).

My next Planar 3 mod is to provide it with an isolated motor pod, but that involves making an 80mm diameter hole through the motor board.

If I can find the original glass platter out of the loft I will be able to photograph the way it is set up and publish it somewhere on the forum.

If this achieves the bass quality I'm after I will let you all know.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morris_minor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2018 at 10:46am
I'm a bit late to this particular party - but another welcome to the forum from me, John.

I noticed you mentioned archiving your vinyl. It's worth pointing out that the Accession has two outputs, one variable that makes hooking it up to an ADC alongside an amplifier very simple. The EQ and loading options along with it's great sound make it very hard to beat. Something to demo, maybe? Wink
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RichW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2018 at 10:47am
Interesting topic.
Rega's top turntables, such as the old P9 & now the P10 use a DSP controlled motor PSU
which they say is tuned to the specific motor used in the deck to reduce vibration -
would this be an introduction of a + or - dc offset to the AC - or something else?
Having owned a P9 - it is a very good turntable but does need good isolation & mounting
away from speakers. The tonearm would often wobble in time with kick drums with high volume
rock.
I always thought it sounded a little bass light - if well controlled.
Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2018 at 2:53pm
Digital Signal Processing is a uP "drawing" of a sinewave instead of it being divided down from an actual quartz crystal. A uP obviously requires a clock, but such crystals are often 27MHz, and the higher you go, the bigger the EMC problems become. This is why I proposed using lower frequency crystals divided down using slow glue logic, and the results are very precise. As for DC offset to AC, it would manifest itself as distortion of the sinewave - an undistorted sinewave has x axis zero volts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote gwebster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2018 at 4:04pm
As Graham said, the DSP aspect of these units offered by Rega and others is usually a microcontroller recreating a sinewave to drive the stepper motor on the TT. They often supply two outputs of the sinewave phase shifted by 90deg to drive the two winding on the stepper motor. "Fine tuning" for each motor is done by adjusting the phase difference between these two outputs to achieve the lowest vibration level for the specific motor its connected to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2018 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by gwebster gwebster wrote:

"Fine tuning" for each motor is done by adjusting the phase difference between these two outputs to achieve the lowest vibration level for the specific motor its connected to.


And that cannot be done without DSP.

However, the use of a higher voltage and higher power motor run at half or lower voltage reduces vibration substantially. Thus the voltage rise in the phase lead winding which you get by capacitor phasing at increasing frequency (e.g. using 67.5Hz on a motor/cap combination worked out for 50Hz) will still be well within the motor's rating.

And that makes it possible to use a single output non-DSP solution. Wink
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