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Gidders View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gidders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2017 at 8:38am

Originally posted by morris_minor morris_minor wrote:

At the risk of provoking a bit of controversy (Embarrassed) - you mention ripping in 24bit. The extra dynamic range over 16bit is entirely lost in the noise floor of the record. I've done many tests myself and can't hear a difference between 16 and 24 bit rips. YMMV of course Wink


Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

I'd second Bob's advice on bit depth for record rips. I understand 16 bits gives 96dB range which is about 20dB more than a very clean record on a quiet turntable so there's plenty of headroom in the ADC allowing gain to be applied with any other restoration in the digital domain. I must admit I usually record at 48kHz nowdays but am not suggesting you should do this.

Interesting & I'll experiment. Since my original post, I've invested in Vinyl Studio which I think was worth the entry price ~£30 for the ease of work flow over Audacity/MP3tag/Album Art Downloader but I notice on one of the help screens it says "recommended record setting for most users are 16bit / 44.1kHz (or for a little extra headroom 20bit) ... but then for 'most' users 192/256mp3 is acceptable Wink
Gidders
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LP12/Ittok/Lingo/Gram Amp 2 SE/L*nn Klimax Renew DS
GS Solo ULDE/PSU1/HD800
Naim 82/HiCap/250
Kudos Cadera 2
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Gidders View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gidders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2017 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by morris_minor morris_minor wrote:

At the risk of provoking a bit of controversy (Embarrassed) - you mention ripping in 24bit. The extra dynamic range over 16bit is entirely lost in the noise floor of the record. I've done many tests myself and can't hear a difference between 16 and 24 bit rips. YMMV of course Wink

Originally posted by Fatmangolf Fatmangolf wrote:

I'd second Bob's advice on bit depth for record rips. I understand 16 bits gives 96dB range which is about 20dB more than a very clean record on a quiet turntable so there's plenty of headroom in the ADC allowing gain to be applied with any other restoration in the digital domain. I must admit I usually record at 48kHz nowdays but am not suggesting you should do this.

Well I've done some experimenting. I've taken a number of different records which have been recorded at 24bit/96kHz and taken a track off each and output it twice - once at 24/96 & a second time at 16/44.1. I then had a music loving but non audiophile friend play the two versions of each track without telling me whether they were playing A then B or B then A. 

When we looked at the results, 80% of the time I preferred the same version which would suggest that you can hear a difference. BUT the version I preferred was the 16/44.1. At the outset my non audiophile friend didn't know what the differences between the two version was, but she had the same preferences - in her words the 16/44.1 were more music, less hifi.

How down sampling can make a recording sound better I don't know. The only parallel I can maybe draw is in the photographic world. There's a product called the Matabones Speed Booster which enables you to attach Canon/Nikon etc lenses to micro 4/3 cameras while reducing the focal length by 1.4 so a 200mm f2.8 Canon lens becomes an effective 285mm (200/1.4 x 2) f2.0 lens. It does the seemingly impossible of giving you a 1 stop light gathering advantage AND improves image sharpness. Whether down sampling performs some sort of similar magic I don't know.

The one test I haven't tried is recording direct in 16/44.1 vs recording in 24/96 & down sampling but as I delete the original recording after it's been cleaned & output down sampling there's no overhead for recording initially at a higher resolution.
Gidders
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LP12/Ittok/Lingo/Gram Amp 2 SE/L*nn Klimax Renew DS
GS Solo ULDE/PSU1/HD800
Naim 82/HiCap/250
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morris_minor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2017 at 9:17am
I think too many people obsess over "numbers" in hifi - especially with digital. I went through a phase of doing that some years ago, but now I listen with my ears not my eyes on the specs . . . Wink

[ . .  and I came across the Speed Booster recently, having just got a Micro 4/3 camera. It's like a converter used backwards, and if you have full frame lenses you want to use on a Micro 4/3 camera seems a no brainer to use - but it ain't cheap . . . I wish I still had my old Olympus OM primes Disapprove ]
Bob

Majestic DAC/pre-amp
Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V
Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50
2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links
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