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GS for TD 160 / MP-200
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HPower View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Dec 2021 at 3:03pm
Hi everybody, new member here from Canada.

I recently picked up a Thornes TD 160 and I am in the process of building a beefier plinth and having a new TP 16 arm tube installed.
I have a brand new Nagaoka MP-200 AUDIO MM Cartridge awaiting the tone arm rebuild.

My plan was to put the TD 160 into my secondary system which is based around a completely rebuilt
Sansui AU-717 and a pair of Klipsch La Scalas... should make for a nice vintage system.

Then I thought about playing the Thornes in my main system that is controlled by a
Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE preamp, which has no phono stage.

So, looking for suggestions for a phono preamp that might work with my main system?
Something in the $500-$1000 range, new or used.

Locally I have come across a Graham Slee Relex M and PS1 @ $675cnd that has caught my eye.

Now after reading a bunch of posts here, I wonder how much better the Accession MM might be?
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patientot View Drop Down
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The Reflex M or Accession M will work fine with that cartridge, so take your pick.

If you are having the tonearm rewired make sure you keep the capacitance low for the tonearm cabling. I have seen many places selling high capacitance rewiring for tonearms which is fine for MC cartridges but not high output MM/MI carts like your Nagaoka.
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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HPower View Drop Down
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Points: 154 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HPower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2021 at 6:18pm
Hey patientot,
Thanks for the response.

I am actually haveing a brand new (NOS) arm tube (with OEM wiring) that I found in Switzerland installed.

When I bought this TD 160 a month or so ago I heard a very noticeable hum particularly when
touching the tonearm.
I thought the headshell and leadwire contacts might just need a good cleaning but when I went to take the headshell off I discovered that the female plug on the end of the tonearm had been removed
and the head shell was wired direct.
It looked like a first year apprentice did the wiring, leaving some bare wires and letting the wires 
touch the inside of the arm, hence all the hum.

I am just learning about "capacitance", along with a bunch of other stuff.
Not sure how this OEM wiring will measure up as far as capacitance goes?
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patientot View Drop Down
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Originally posted by HPower HPower wrote:

Hey patientot,
Thanks for the response.

I am actually haveing a brand new (NOS) arm tube (with OEM wiring) that I found in Switzerland installed.

When I bought this TD 160 a month or so ago I heard a very noticeable hum particularly when
touching the tonearm.
I thought the headshell and leadwire contacts might just need a good cleaning but when I went to take the headshell off I discovered that the female plug on the end of the tonearm had been removed
and the head shell was wired direct.
It looked like a first year apprentice did the wiring, leaving some bare wires and letting the wires 
touch the inside of the arm, hence all the hum.

I am just learning about "capacitance", along with a bunch of other stuff.
Not sure how this OEM wiring will measure up as far as capacitance goes?



Ask whomever is doing the work to measure the capacitance of the tonearm wiring for you. They should have a meter to do so. Does this specific arm have just internal tonearm wiring with a DIN plug or similar, or are the RCA cables hardwired into the internal wiring?

If you are using a DIN cable with RCA connectors to plug into the phono preamp, I would want it to be 20pf per foot or less with the total length being no more than 1 meter or around 3 feet.

Internal tonearm wiring is not usually a problem but it won't hurt to check that. Good low capacitance internal tonearm wiring is only going to be around 25pf or so not counting the RCA cable. With the RCA cable you'd want to stay around ~100pf total, give or take. Combine that with the input capacitance of the phono preamp and you get ~200pf total.

Note that the Accession has adjustable capacitance switches while the Reflex is fixed at 100pf. Also note that depending on age and state of hearing, you may not be able to notice differences with all this stuff. My personal opinion is that cartridges should be loaded according to factory spec as a starting point. Some will benefit from further tweaking, others won't.
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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HPower View Drop Down
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Points: 154 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HPower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2021 at 7:05pm
I actually dropped off the TD 160 with my tech earlier this morning.
I built a new plinth and while I was at that I installed 2 RCA jacks and ground post
on the back left and an AC Inlet on the back right of the plinth.
So, it will be RCA cables to the phono preamp.

The new arm tube has the original Thorens wiring it it from the 1970s when it was made, going
to the factory female plug on the end of the arm that the head shell plugs into.

Yes, I did notice that the Accession has adjustable capacitance switches, as I learn,
perhaps that could be a reason to pony up for that model?
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lfc jon View Drop Down
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Points: 3989 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lfc jon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2021 at 7:08pm
Hi Tom and welcome.
Can't give any advice on capacitance as my turntable is stock and have not done any modifications in the past other than the cartridge. patientot knows more about this and I'm sure others on this forum will too. All I will say is the Reflex M and PSU-1 are a vary good choice and if you can afford the Accession I can only see that as being better but from what people have said on here it may only be small, But again I have no experience with it I'm only going by what I have read on this forum, Others may say different this may all depends on the cartridge and HiFi system they are using. I'm not trying to be patronising as you may well be aware of this.
Your hearing may be different to others as well.
Good luck.
Jon


Edited by lfc jon - 06 Dec 2021 at 7:14pm
Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.
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HPower View Drop Down
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Points: 154 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HPower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2021 at 7:31pm
Thanks for the welcome ifc jon!

My main system is very sensitive and hi efficiency, with my speaker being in the 107db range.
So, any noise in the system can be very obvious and unwanted.

I am hopeful that my tech can get this table as quite a possible.

Whether it be the Reflex M or Accession, is there any difference between them as fas as noise is concerned?
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