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What's with the bad rap about Grado cartridges?
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Mikeh View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikeh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2023 at 10:57am
Originally posted by Lucabeer Lucabeer wrote:

The Decca option has always intrigued me. The change in ownership of the brand is what is making me very wary!

I've seen reports that the company that has taken over London Decca manufacture and maintenance is operating and supporting customers (https://www.londondecca.com/).  I don't have experience and am awaiting response to a request for prices of new cartridges.
Mike

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Mikeh View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikeh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2023 at 7:15pm
Luca, just add, I received a response from London Decca. They say the plan is to have new products available from Jan '24 and pricing to be confirmed. Currently cartridge service and repair is being undertaken.
Mike

Technics sl1210g with Victor U-2
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I've never used a Decca. My understanding is that they have their own niche. Looking at the design, it's quite different from other cartridges with the super short cantilever and piece of twine holding part of it together. I know they are well regarded in some circles, but don't come cheap either.
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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Mikeh View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mikeh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2023 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by patientot patientot wrote:

I've never used a Decca. My understanding is that they have their own niche. Looking at the design, it's quite different from other cartridges with the super short cantilever and piece of twine holding part of it together. I know they are well regarded in some circles, but don't come cheap either.


David, you are right, the Decca London is a unique design which I believe dates back to the 1940s. Upgrades over the years resulted in the Gold & Super Gold in the 70s still based on the same design but in what appears to be a painted tin case. Subsequent Jubilee and Reference refined the design further. Decca London changed hands but ultimately was taken by an ex employee who continued to use the name London Decca providing service and new models until retirement earlier this year. The business has evidently been handed over to a new stylus expert who currently provides service and plans to manufacture new models.
Pricing of secondhand cartridges varies, I was able to get mine at a very reasonable price, marked as a NOS Gold model it actually proved to be a Super Gold (basically fine line rather than elliptical stylus), new one a box from '70s. It works perfectly and is pretty special. There are many write ups about the 'Decca sound', the cantilever design giving a very vibrant, dynamic response. Nothing is perfect, the sound stage lacks depth, it's not the best tracker and it does not like imperfections but on the right record it really sings.
I wouldn't be without other cartridges but the Decca is something else.


Edited by Mikeh - 17 Oct 2023 at 1:03pm
Mike

Technics sl1210g with Victor U-2
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Cambridge Audio CXC CD player
Lindemann Limetree Bridge streamer
Harbeth P3ESR XD paired with 2x REL t5x
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Points: 710 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lucabeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2023 at 9:29am
I gave away the Grado Gold 2 at 280 hours. From 120-130 hours onwars, its sibilance on certain records (and only some!) had started driving me crazy. And at 280 hours, it was starting to exhibit bad tracking, in terms of brief crackle on loud passages. I think I am too spoiled by advanced stylus profiles to accept the performance compromises of cheap bonded ellipticals!
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patientot View Drop Down
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Points: 1525 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2023 at 10:19pm
Originally posted by Lucabeer Lucabeer wrote:

I gave away the Grado Gold 2 at 280 hours. From 120-130 hours onwars, its sibilance on certain records (and only some!) had started driving me crazy. And at 280 hours, it was starting to exhibit bad tracking, in terms of brief crackle on loud passages. I think I am too spoiled by advanced stylus profiles to accept the performance compromises of cheap bonded ellipticals!


I am with you on that. Here in the U.S. Joe Long modifies/repairs vintage and current Grado cartridges. Often he will carefully remove the diamond only and replace it with a better quality nude diamond. You can see photos of his work if you follow "groovetickler" on Instagram. He repairs all kinds of cartridges and shows a lot of eye-opening stuff.
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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Points: 710 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucabeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2023 at 6:30pm
Ray is imaging this 280 hours Grado stylus too!

So far, he says that at 280 hours its wear patches are twice the width of the ones on my Nagaoka MP-500... but which has 630 hours! And that the radius at the tip is already at the limit of scraping the bottom of the groove (which I suspected, since I was noticing increased sibilance and surface noise: turns out my ear are quite good).

And even more surprising, he said that while touted by Grado as an elliptical, it's such a fat one that the contact patches are almost completely round. More akin to a spherical?

Another nail in the coffin for the Grado to me: never, ever, another one on my turntable.

I like the midrange tonality, but all the rest is a mess: tracking, IGD, sibilance, and very short stylus life. 140-150 EUR for a replacement stylus that lasts only so little and with the inherent problems of an elliptical is simply too much, when for 200 EUR you can get a Microline or a super fine line that lasts at least twice (and sounds better in the meanwhile)!


Edited by Lucabeer - 14 Dec 2023 at 6:38pm
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