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Burn-in revisited |
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Aussie Mick
Senior Member Joined: 21 Feb 2014 Location: Bendigo Aust. Status: Offline Points: 1091 |
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Posted: 03 Mar 2024 at 10:11pm |
The components within a DAC still need current to set dielectrics and the like, and some items like capacitors need to come up to temperature to be within spec, so there's at least something there. Whether it's enough change to be audible is a different question.
More importantly, let's not forget that a DAC is wholly an analogue device; when receiving and processing bits it does so by the transmission of electrical signals, not literal numbers, and so is susceptible to the same interference as a preamp, and everything after the conversion process is of course analogue. If you have a google of "noise in mixed signal systems" you can find some really interesting things. "Bits are bits" yes, but the noise problem really doesn't have anything to do with the successful transmission of data. A bit off topic, but interesting, perhaps? My personal experience is that DACs have exhibited little to no burn in compared to speakers and amplifiers I've owned.
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Rega RP8 - Apheta 2 - Accession MC Enigma PS -Solo ULDE (Focal Utopia) - PS Audio M700 - Fical Kanta No2
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Fatmangolf
Moderator Group Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Location: Middlesbrough Status: Offline Points: 8998 |
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An interesting topic. I agree that the analogue bit does need time to burn in. In theory the digital side is only 1's and 0's but changing regulators and capacitors just in that seemed to change what I heard on one of my previous DACs. Subjective but in practice the whole DAC gets burned in from new so the sound could improve over several days or more on both digital and analogue, no way to distinguish them. Just my opinion, others may think differently.
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Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
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VurtFeather
New Member Joined: 23 Feb 2024 Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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I was reading an interesting conversation on another forum today about whether or not a digital step, like a DAC needs burn in as well. I admit that I left more confused than before, but it made more sense to me that it wouldn't make any impact on that as opposed to something like a speaker or a phono stage.
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Ash
Senior Member Joined: 18 Mar 2013 Location: Dorset Status: Offline Points: 4334 |
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I reckon subjecting an extruded conductor to a very strong electric field (high voltage, high energy per unit charge) could affect net dipole alignment or net dipole moment in the conductor. Not that the size/magnitude of the signal would vary at all going one way instead of the other but I reckon it could affect timing of the signal. It could cause phase shift, not loss of amplitude. Signals are alternating currents but they aren't necessarily symmetrical across the x-axis.
High voltage flash testing is an industrial safety test for the insulation around wires when they are made, to make sure that electrical faults don't allow the insulation to ionise and become conductive of high currents and cause harm/death, I guess. I would have to read more, this is just conjecture. I have no evidence. Also, mechanically bending a metal isn't going to alter dipole arrangement. Bottom line is I'm not a researcher so I have no idea about dipole moments in copper.
Edited by Ash - 20 May 2021 at 7:45pm |
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We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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R66
New Member Joined: 18 May 2021 Location: australia Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Hi Ash, Why would Audio cables be subject to "Hi voltage flash testing" because if they are not changes to a piece of wires Molecular structure during manufacture is still a possibility. I cant engage on a science level but just bending a wire back and forth changes its structure.
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Ash
Senior Member Joined: 18 Mar 2013 Location: Dorset Status: Offline Points: 4334 |
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At school, I was taught that metals are typically comprised of metal ions floating in a sea of electrons. So the electrons are delocalised and do not have to remain within the vicinity of their respective ions. This is part of the explanation for the efficient electrical and thermal conductivities of metals. Energy transfers like these propagate at high speed through the material. Metals are often described as uniform or isotropic in their chemical structure but this is not necessarily the case for their charge distribution or dipole moments, which are part of the explanation for magnetism, whether it is induced or permanent.
So if we consider that metals are fairly uniform in structure but when it comes to dipole alignment, there can be some variation (imagine a permanent version of Van der Waals forces in chemistry). If there may be subtle differences in the behaviour of charge and their motions and how they transfer signals down the length of cable so there could be a small difference in bias, caused as previously suggested, during high voltage flash testing when manufactured. Magnetic fields and electric fields are not simple things to understand but this is where I believe the explanation lies. I have personally been able to perceive differences in bass focus and phasing when I tried swapping cable direction in the past and I really don't think it was placebo.
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We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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R66
New Member Joined: 18 May 2021 Location: australia Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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My understanding of cable directionality and i can certainly hear the difference. Is when the copper wire is drawn through the die the molecular structure lines up in a certain way. So the signal can either be with or against this flow.
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