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Accession MM + Elevator EXP + HOMC

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cameroncollet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cameroncollet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2022 at 8:59pm
It's not being used with that system currently. I do have a Schiit Jotunheim I could pass it into that has pre-outs.

Would the .5 mv of the Hana SL be more than 5.0 mv through the elevator exp? Or would the issue be the same with the Accession/ADC?

Edit: Looking at the specs of the Elevator and Accession, the .5 mV of the SL would end up around ~6.2 - 6.5 mV after the Elevator, which would translate to ~740 - 770 mV after the Accession? Would that be right numbers-wise? Would it match better with the 616 mV sensitivity input of the ADI-2 you mentioned?


Edited by cameroncollet - 18 May 2022 at 9:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cameroncollet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2022 at 9:01pm
@Chris Firth it's not reaching high enough levels to clip. I'd be happy if it was, because I could adjust it down using the Accession.

Trying to do as little post processing as possible.


Edited by cameroncollet - 18 May 2022 at 9:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2022 at 10:12pm
If it helps you I record with peaks below -6dB which I can boost in the software afterwards as Chris said above. You may find the SH into the Acc MM is fine on most LP's.
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2022 at 10:19pm
The reason I'm not enthusing about the Elevator EXP is the real possibility of it being used in an awkward situation (used with the wrong gear for audio).

Although it has been tested for EMC immunity (in South Korea by our agent there) and passed with flying colours, some of the ways high sensitivity products like this are used in so called high-end systems result in interference problems, which the Elevator EXP unfairly gets the blame for.

One of the worse interfering items "known to man" is the I-phone SE, which I intentionally use. With it sat on top of the Elevator EXP doing nothing, or calling a number, or receiving a call, there is no interference at all; yet at 1.5 miles of the Crystal Palace transmitter in London, a user reported constant loud interference, yet double that distance and it is absolutely silent.

Now, those who understand the square power law, will say that's not possible, and yes, they're correct, that there would still be some interference at twice the distance (or even further).

And that is the problem. There are those who know how to use a vinyl front end, and those who think they know. Several Elevator EXP's were demonstrated by The Cartridge man (RIP Len) within 3.5 miles of the Crystal Palace transmitter, and all were sold, but Len was absolutely experienced in vinyl front ends.

So, yes, provided it is used properly, then 0.5mV in gives 6.5mV out, and multiplied by the Accession MM gain, the output will be 773.5mV (or 0dBu).

But then there's bound to be the complaint that it hasn't got the "suggested load impedance" of 400 ohms, which must be magic, except that it has a greater than sign in front of the 400 ohms, which means more than 400 ohms, and there is an 840 ohms setting on the front of the Elevator EXP, which is more than 400 ohms.

So, yes it will work admirably, but not using a vinyl front end that has no screening continuity, or no screening continuity in other interconnects, or in knitted interconnects, or where the turntable has a "whip antenna" consisting of the cartridge wires emerging from the arm looping up to the sky and back down to the output socket enclosure, or if the arm is carbon fibre with no metallic shielding inside.

Basically, in this game, no ****** behaves, perhaps with the exception of me! Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cameroncollet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2022 at 10:41pm
@Fatmangolf you're probably right, it is very close to the fixed gain I had before (couldn't adjust it), so it would probably be fine. I just remember the few albums where it rode the border between okay, and it could use a little more. I wanted to option to turn it up a little in those moments.

@Graham 😂 I did see the > on the Hana spec, but thank you for answering that question as I was wondering. I'm not 100% nitpicky and where I am now in California I haven't run into any interference (knock on wood) in my system...yet. The Accession and SH are honestly golden together (was just caught up listening to the combo yesterday), so I'm thinking the SL + Elevator will get me where I need to be.

Hana SH is still within the return/exchange window anyway so I'll take advantage of that.

Thanks for the help and advice everyone 👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2022 at 12:14am
Please don't take this the wrong way but I think Chris is right that post processing is the way to go in order to increase the volume of any recording you make. It literally takes less than 30 seconds for me to select a bunch of files in a folder and run them through the DSP functions of one program I have. I can make anything as loud as I want. Obviously I wouldn't want to make them too loud, or I'll run into clipping.

I agree that the Elevator is the wrong tool for this situation as Graham explained in technical detail.

Personally for your situation I would try to pick a cart with around 4-6mV of output which is pretty common for many high output cartridges. Then adjust the files if you need to afterwards. It's really not too difficult.
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cameroncollet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2022 at 12:31am
@patientot no worries I can be pretty idiotic. One thing I neglected to mention is that I'm recording directly to DSD. While I do cut a copy of those to PCM (24/192 or whatever), the DSD files aren't modifiable.

The other problem with recording to DSD is that any digital modification to the stream is turned off in the ADC when recording. Which means the sensitivity isn't -2 dBu, it's +4 dBu (losing 6dB of digital gain). So minimum sensitivity isn't 616 mV, it's somewhere around ~1228 mV. Even if we've confirmed I'm an idiot at least I learned a bit 😂

Honestly the Elevator was already on my mind before I ran into this issue. At some point I wanted to move to LOMC, this just moved it up. Also with the Hana SH/SL the carts are the same cost. Worst case I'm losing a restocking fee on the cartridge, and gaining the flexibility of LOMC on a really good MM phono.

Edit: I did also search around for the threads on interference and the Elevator. I've made my own cables using mogami wire and bought decent cables at times as well. The Rega Planar 8 doesn't have any exposed wires, the RB880 tonearm seems to do pretty well, minus fine adjustment options. Hopefully, worst case, I'll end up with a new set of cables from here if needed 😅



Edited by cameroncollet - 19 May 2022 at 1:02am
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