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Distortion cd UHQCD (Ultimate High Quality Cd)

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Fatmangolf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2022 at 9:47pm
That is very helpful information. Thanks David.
Jon

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lfc jon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2022 at 1:40pm
Thanks David for the info.
I think the moral of the story is, if your not sure about a disk then don't buy it or at less look for the CD label. One thing, I can't use them but are SACDs much of a step up on CDs for sound quality?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2022 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by lfc jon lfc jon wrote:

Thanks David for the info.
I think the moral of the story is, if your not sure about a disk then don't buy it or at less look for the CD label. One thing, I can't use them but are SACDs much of a step up on CDs for sound quality?


I've heard some SACDs that sound great. However, that's down to source and mastering like everything, not the fact that it's an SACD or you are listening to a DSD encoded file.

Remember that SACD is simply an optical disc format for DSD files. DSD was/is a failed format. Sony thought it would be great to use for archiving old master tapes and they did that for awhile. They claimed it was superior to PCM technology at the time and hoped it would take root in the professional world.

However, a big problem is you cannot edit, mix, or use many types of mastering tools on a DAW without converting DSD to PCM. That means many of the SACDs on the market have been converted back and forth from DSD to PCM a few times before the files are pressed onto a disc and sold to the consumer. This basically throws out the notion that DSD is inherently superior to PCM.

If you think that's funny, many consumer SACD players will convert the DSD audio to PCM before it hits the output jacks. Of course hardware manufacturers don't always come out and tell you this.

The other problem was that SACD got into a format war with DVD-A. Both got crushed by Napster and illegal downloading and the fact that people didn't really seem to care about the features of the format, particularly multichannel audio (e.g. 5.1) which appeared on some SACD and DVD-A releases.

Sony and others largely stopped using DSD to archive master tapes because it was a PITA, people didn't care that much as a selling point, and it would need to be converted to PCM at some point.

FWIW there are pure DSD recordings but take a look and you will notice they are mainly classical and jazz solo or small instrumental combos where no serious editing, mixing, and mastering is required due to the limitations I mentioned above. I have purchased some of these (expensive!) and played them on a DSD DAC. Once converted to PCM using good quality conversion software no one can reliably tell the difference in a blind, controlled test.

At this point DSD downloads and SACDs are an extreme niche product on life support.

Many SACDs are dual layer discs where there is a redbook CD layer of data. Those can usually be played back on a normal CD player without problems, but you cannot access the DSD layer without an SACD player. Now, Japan and some niche labels starting producing single-layer SACDs. These won't play at all on your regular CDP. Keep this in mind if you try to purchase some SACDs.

Besides all the stuff I mentioned, one thing that has always annoyed me about SACD was the copy protection and the fact that backing up them to a computer is not so easy if you want to back up the DSD layer. An ordinary computer optical drive cannot access the DSD layer, only the redbook layer.

It is possible to "hack" the firmware on certain Blu-Ray players and get them to rip the DSD layer but it's a bit of a chore honestly. If Sony really wanted to do away with the copy protection and give developers legit software tools for it, they could. But since they don't many resort to these "hacks" to backup their discs.

Bottom line is I have 4,500+ CDs at this point and if I really wanted to seriously invest in SACD I would have done so a long time ago. However, there are just too many disadvantages for me so I don't.
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vincenzo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 3:48pm
Sorry, if I am not mistaken, could a single layer SACD sound better than a double layer SACD? Obviously having a SACD reader available.

Edited by Vincenzo - 26 Jan 2022 at 3:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lfc jon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 7:33pm
Vincenzo
Isn't the double layer SACD the one with ordinary CD sound on it. I maybe mistaken but now you said about double layer SACDs I seem to remember something about it.
Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by lfc jon lfc jon wrote:

Vincenzo
Isn't the double layer SACD the one with ordinary CD sound on it. I maybe mistaken but now you said about double layer SACDs I seem to remember something about it.


Yes, the double layer SACD has a redbook audio layer and a DSD audio layer. It will play in a regular CDP.

Single layer SACD = DSD audio layer only.
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by Vincenzo Vincenzo wrote:

Sorry, if I am not mistaken, could a single layer SACD sound better than a double layer SACD? Obviously having a SACD reader available.


Only if the source and mastering are superior to the dual layer SACD. The disc type won't make a difference.
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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