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Balanced connections
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lfc jon View Drop Down
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Points: 3986 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lfc jon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2021 at 7:41pm
This person also told me the same also applied to speaker cables the shorter the better but he did say to me that you do if you can, need to have your speakers a fair distance away from the system, specially if you have a turntable. He also said that putting your system between the speakers was not good, But this I can only take his word on that as I have not read anything about it any where (but I do it anyway)
Reflex M, Solo (both with PSU-1) CuSat50, Lautus, Spatia & Spatia links cables. Ortofon Bronze.
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Points: 16298 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 6:59pm
An elementary block diagram of a so-called "balanced" HPA.

balanced headphone amplifier block diagram

The only thing balanced about it is the input ("Birt" configuration shown).

The amplifier is bridged, and there are two options.

1. One side receiving the signal from the other's output (via attenuator not shown), and both amps are inverting.

2. Both sides receiving the same signal with one inverting and the other non-inverting.

The first suffers the second amp receiving the first amp's error signal and its propagation delay.

The second suffers common-mode distortion on the non-inverting side, where there is none on the inverting side.

Even with "perfect match" components, the bridge amplifiers can never be considered genuinely balanced.

The other snag is that headphones with a common return short out one of the amps. Separate return headphones have to be rewired to a four-pin plug.


Edited by Graham Slee - 19 Mar 2021 at 7:01pm
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Ash View Drop Down
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Points: 4334 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 7:56pm
It would be great if you were to write a whole book about electronics design Graham. I would buy it.
We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Points: 16298 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2021 at 10:14pm
Far better people have written far better than my abilities allow.

The Art of Electronics - Horowitz & Hill

Valve Amplifiers - Morgan Jones

Just to name two that give a wonderful insight into how things actually work.

However, the reader must have the commitment, enthusiasm, and more importantly the staying power to stick with it.
That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Points: 481 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sylvain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 1:38pm
For what it is worth.....I perceived 'Balanced' as ''professional design'' and though my DAC offered a Balanced Output and Proprius accept 'Balance' and John subtly advised upon my repeated request and his patience would worn thin though he seems much younger that !!!!!!!! ''' balanced' for long length. I my naivety ask him to provide nearly 3 metres pairs balance Libran to connect Proprius across my living room now that Propertius allows positioning speakers further apart. It cost much. I tried a 1.5 metre pair in Single ended when John suggested a year later that I also introduce a Single ended cable.
Well, single-ended in 1.5 metre pair to Proprius (at more than half the cost )and you do not need three wires save very Much money and the sonic difference at my 66 age well hardly noticeable but yes 'balance' mode in Phono Pre amp and headphone may have a subtle sonic difference.  
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Ash View Drop Down
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Points: 4334 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2021 at 5:43pm
I chose single-ended 1.5m Lautus cables between Majestic DAC and Proprius amps, after quite a bit of thinking. If the cable has excellent EMI shielding and RF suppression already then the need for eliminating interference by two phase superposition becomes quite unnecessary, especially as this cable length is quite short so the cumulative interference along its length would be small.

The main benefit of balanced input and output capability is that the inverted phase can be used instead of the standard phase. The inverted phase is not subjected to common mode distortion like the standard phase is.
We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
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Points: 8998 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2021 at 7:50pm
To be fair it does help on long cable runs with low signal levels. Otherwise I can see your reasoning that choosing the 'live' or 'return' output and connecting it to your choice of 'live' or 'return' input offers subtle options on the sound, depending on the pieces of equipment. But if one stereo channel is out of phase with the other you'd definitely hear that. Also some people can hear the absolute phase of reproduced music and that would be a factor too, for them.
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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