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PSU1 - Enigma

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Pushpaw View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 3:00am
Day 2 update:

So technically 24 hours of burn in would have been reached around noon today. I did my earlier listening session around 3:30pm. Tonight (around 9pm) I'm listening again.

I believe I'm starting to notice something. I would call it bass "tickle" in my ears. Which I associate with being one of the things I look for as it makes the music more involving. Along with that has come a bit more presence. For a moment, I was listening to Sonny Clark - Sonny's Crib Music Matters 45 rpm and I was kind of lost in the music. 

I think that You are right, Mick. Because (before I read your post actually), I realized that the music only seems to loose the extra bit after some time has passed when I switch from Enigma to PSU1. It's not instantaneous as soon as I switch cords. I can only guess it's related to how I can switch the cords without losing the signal - maybe the signal from one lingers? I have no idea, no electrical competency.

So then I listened to the opening 30 seconds or so of Mendelssohn Concerto in E Minor Heifetz/Munch BSO (RCA Victor Analogue Productions) with the Enigma, then changed to PSU1 and gave it a moment, then listened to same 30 seconds. Fairly sure I noticed that with Enigma that bass tickle and greater presence in strings were there. Then with PSU1, the music seemed a bit further away. 

The difference is still not huge, and I'm not clearly decided on anything yet, but this was the first time I actually noticed something.

You know what they say about scientific experiments - have to be reproducible or they're worthless. So, after I have reproduced (or failed to) this some more, I'll draw some conclusions. And I'm not suggesting that my subjective listening is somehow scientific, but I should at least be fairly confident I hear differences over multiple listening sessions and in different conditions before I draw a conclusion.

Also, read this very thorough and interesting review of Accession MC and also Enigma. I'm sure folks here are familiar as it's quoted on GS sales page for Accession, but still worth posting as it briefly discusses using Enigma on other GS products: http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/graham-slee-accession-mc-moving-coil-phono-preamplifier#:~:text=The%20Accession%20MC%20offers%20cartridge,left%20on%20all%20the%20time.
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Aussie Mick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussie Mick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 3:43am
Let me clarify what I wrote earlier. 

I think A/B comparisons are very good to get an idea of overall the characteristic of two components. A good example would be headphones or speakers, where the flavors can be very obviously different. You can literally listen to one minute of each and hear that they’re clearly making two very different sounds. 

However, as the possibility for variation diminishes (power amplifiers IME sound much more alike than speakers), so too does the worthiness of a “quick A/B”. The smaller the gap in sound produced, the longer it takes to get a handle on what the two components are doing differently. Perhaps a good example here is the difference between two $3,500 power amps that use the same tech. Different, yes, but less so than in the speaker example. Or, three headphones from one manufacturers line. At this point, you need longer to tell, and more music as well.

So, onto really subtle things like two very similar power supplies from the same manufacturer. If you know your system super well and the new supply is fully broken in, I suppose you should hear superficial differences without too much strain. However, it’s only through extended listening that you’ll discover far more important things than bass response, etc. Does the new supply let you listen longer without fatigue? Does it push you towards listening to a particular style of music, or does it let you enjoy a wider range? How does it deal with those not so great recordings? Does it let the music through and minimize the distraction from the poor recording quality? Or does it limit you to spinning only your best albums?

Once you’ve listened to a selection (over the course of two weeks) from your collection and go back to the first power supply, does your “experience” change? There are plenty of measurable things that sometimes don’t seem to matter. There are things we can develop important opinions and feelings about that don’t seem measurable. (I think I just misquoted Einstein...). 

I’ve not read the measurements for my Solo ULDE, Proprius or Accession MC, but I know they get me more involved than anything else I’ve purchased. Win. For me, hifi measurement stats, like in football, are only good post-match. “This is my impression, what are the measurements that back that up?” I’m sure measurements are far more important on the design bench than the listening room.
Cheers,
Mick.
Rega RP8 - Apheta 2 - Accession MC Enigma PS -Solo ULDE (Focal Utopia) - PS Audio M700 - Fical Kanta No2
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Ash View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2020 at 7:45am
I agree with Mick, the more similar the two components being tested are, the more challenging it is to identify their differences and the longer it takes to identify those differences. I have done quite a lot of headphone A/B comparisons over the years. Compare a HD600 to a AKG K1000 and the difference is immediately huge. Compare a K1000 to a MySphere 3.1 and you must listen much more carefully because they sound quite alike until you concentrate on different aspects of the sound for a long time.

Mick is right. Spend at least two weeks with the Enigma then swap back to the standard PSU1. If your enjoyment of your music deteriorates after swapping back, there's your answer.

Sometimes unconscious judgement is more objective.


Edited by Ash - 12 Sep 2020 at 7:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 2:16am
Day 3, probably about 58-59 hrs into burn in period. 

Testing Enigma mostly on Reflex M at the moment. Have become more certain about differences emerging. As OP states, the bass is fuller. I'm not great with audiophile language (though I do count myself an audiophile if only because I love music AND sound and I spend enough that I have to be an audiophile). In any case, what I would say is that the presence of the music is heightened in a way that makes it more absorbing, and more tactile to my ears. Probably more realistic/live sounding too. I noticed earlier today while listening to Gillian Welch's Soul Journey that the sound was more coherent, or unified. With the PSU1 it was ever so slightly grainy, though i would never have thought that without the comparison.

I will add that it's still not a "night and day" scenario. But I do have a feeling that once I get used to Reflex M with Enigma, I will have trouble going back as something will be missing and I will feel that I just got booted from the front row to the fifth.

I'm still interested in testing more on the ULDE too but decided to focus my efforts for now.

I should add that I take your comments Mick and Ash. I have stopped "fast switching" the plugs as I don't think it works well. I also take your points that it will be over time and lots of listening that I will truly understand the differences. 

I started these posts so thought I might as well continue for a few days. If anyone else tries this, they can see that I'm going through a period of break in/adjustment.


Edited by Pushpaw - 13 Sep 2020 at 2:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 5:29pm
question for those who know this sort of thing: I realize the Enigma itself has a burn in period, but would the Reflex M need to burn in again in response to the new power supply? Maybe it’s a stupid question, but I understand burn in is about loosening up certain electronics (capacitors or something??). If that’s the case, do they need to be further loosened by the Enigma’s micro power signal? And then would simply having Reflex M broken in on an Enigma improve its overall performance?

I’m probably way off base. Any input from the experts would be helpful. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RichW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 5:46pm
My certainly non-expert opinion is that the Reflex wouldn't need to start burn-in again.
If it's been powered off for a while then perhaps just a day or so get back on song.

My Majestic-powering Enigma is about 5 months old & in the last few weeks the sound 
seems to have really 'taken off'. I also own a CD player that costs a lot more than the 
Majestic/MF M1 CD transport & it doesn't get used much now..
Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 6:22pm
I visualise "burn-in" a bit like an exponential capacitor charging curve, as I personally believe that successful burn-in (for Slee products at least) is about the circuits reaching a maximum stable charged state, directly affecting impulse response of the signal. Sustained power-on is the key, which is why I suggested keeping both standard PSU1 and Enigma powered up even though only one is being used at any one time. The Reflex circuits will store charge regardless of what PSU is powering them. The burned-in state is sustained by power on. Previously prolonged powered-on electronics revert to optimum state sooner than new electronics.
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