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Chris Firth
Moderator Group Joined: 16 May 2013 Location: Rossendale, UK Status: Offline Points: 1533 |
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I wish you'd made a considered post, end of story. Instead you start calling the mastering engineer's abilities and integrity into question, and it's needless. |
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miT
Senior Member Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 890 |
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Everyone is asleep so I have stolen a few blissful moments of silence... I just focussed on what you mean at the start of the song; they clearly wanted the percussion to have extra impact during the layered introduction and in certain sections didn't they? I'm not sure if it is just my playback limitations (PC > Bitzie > HD540ii) but to my ears the percussion does reduce slightly when the other instruments start. It could also be the headphones becoming swamped by all the other instruments...? I first heard this performance in my teens at a show (Ideal Home I think) and it was being demo'd on the VideoLogic dts system. The bass of the drum thundering out of the sub caught my attention as I walked by and resulted in efforts over the years to hunt down the recording. Comparing to that binaural percussion recording I mentioned earlier, I do not think a natural mix could have been as enjoyable.
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Chris Firth
Moderator Group Joined: 16 May 2013 Location: Rossendale, UK Status: Offline Points: 1533 |
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I have heard the Eagles CD played back on a system with 15" Tannoys, and the conga drowned everything else out. That system sounded superb on everything, but I think its Achilles heel was found that day. I've never had that happen with my system (largely because I've never had speakers capable of delivering such clout), but there's a lot of other stuff going on that shouldn't be masked.
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patientot
Senior Member Joined: 28 Nov 2018 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1531 |
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I love this album and own it both LP and CD. I hadn't thought of it when OP started this thread but it could be a test album. As for the LP reissue you're talking about, I don't have that one. Mine is a mid-70s repress that uses that same metalwork as the first pressing. It does have a few crackles here are there, and I would agree with what someone else said that finding a very clean copy is difficult, especially in the U.S. where I've lived. In all my searching I've only come across one. John Martyn records just aren't that common in the used bins here, except maybe some of the later ones every now and then. As for mastering mistakes on that vinyl reissue, I don't think Miles Showell would intentionally screw something up. His philosophy is to transfer everything to digital first before cutting laquers at half speed. Whatever you think of that is up to you. It's possible the tape he was given by the record label was compromised or had age related issues - that would certainly not be unheard of. On another forum, folks have pointed out some channel balance issues with some of the reissues he's work on by using software to record the output of the record. My guess is this happened by accident or is some sort of problem with the equipment at AR or possibly a compromised tape. The records I have cut by MS are mostly albums that were done while he was at Metropolis, and none of those, to my knowledge, have major channel balance issues.
Edited by patientot - 28 Sep 2019 at 6:53pm |
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SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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John1479
Senior Member Joined: 05 Jun 2019 Location: Sheffield Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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I think this is patronising, personal and judgemental. Black and White? Putting words into my mouth, telling me what I should and shouldn't write? When it was a reasonable criticism and hypothesis. Certainly the fact that albums are being repeatedly remastered should be enough of an indication that someone somewhere has got something wrong. You've blown this resonable criticism into a personal criticism which I find highly unjust and offensive. Calm down, indeed. I don't appreciate unjust censure from anyone. If you believe my posts to be incompatible with YOUR views, perhaps one should consider the future of the forum within the context of the rules of the forum. If my post was an unjust, personal attack on someone I could accept your criticism. I think it's a petty shot for no good reason. Edited by John1479 - 28 Sep 2019 at 7:45pm |
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John
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Chris Firth
Moderator Group Joined: 16 May 2013 Location: Rossendale, UK Status: Offline Points: 1533 |
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Making comments such as this do not do anyone any favours. |
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Graham Slee
Admin Group Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16298 |
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Slightly off-topic but this (simplified explanation) might help in the understanding the music production side, and is based on my own near-layman experiences: (Analogue) Mixer gain when recording a multi-miked or over-dubbed performance can influence the sound in at least a couple of ways. Mixers are summing devices so if we call each input level "1", then one input gives us a sum of 1, two inputs a sum of 2 and n inputs a sum of n. We can adjust levels in the mix to favour one input over another, but the mixer has two "level controls": the first being all the input channels; the second being the output. If we leave all inputs at their optimum, then when all inputs are playing the output increases and is adjusted down to the required level by the output control. If however, most inputs favour high frequencies, then as they play together we will experience high frequency boost as the output is lowered to meet the level required (because the fewer bass instruments are relatively attenuated by the process). Looking at a modern motorized desk we can see the inputs being controlled to fit the required level thus removing mixer gain to a greater degree, and this takes a computer to memorize the sequences. On simple productions a sound engineer might be able to balance the inputs, but on something more complex and fast moving, a manual desk will prove difficult to control, with the engineer either needing to work the output level too; or perhaps getting a compressor (or in broadcast, an Optimod) to take on the effort. The above is a simplification but I'm sure it will be realised there is a lot of skill involved in getting a satisfying sound, and I'm sure many unavoidable mistakes must happen. I only ever mixed 8 channels front of house for a folk group (with no rehearsal as I was filling-in for their usual chap who was ill) after which I said never again! |
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