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miT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by Chris Firth Chris Firth wrote:

You'd be surprised at what goes on, but yes, the monitoring gear is all important.
Neutrality is what's needed, and a speaker that's a tiny bit hot in the high end of things can cause the results to sound a bit flat because someone adjusts EQ to compensate.

There are plenty of examples - Hotel California from the Hell Freezes Over thing MTV organised has the overly loud congas that start the tune.
On a set of small speakers it sounds very present in the mix.
Play it on speakers that can get towards reproducing the low end and punch and the mixing imbalance gets more noticeable and more uncomfortable.
The mixing was done of the hoof while the performance was taking place, and it was done in a mobile recording truck, with typical live broadcast monitors (ie small and nearfield, because there's not much room in mobile broadcast units).

Originally posted by miT miT wrote:

I remember buying an RnB album on CD in my teens where the HF completely distorted in crescendo sections. It was shocking on <£30 headphones and speakers, let alone decent kit. Why do these people even have jobs?


A pal of mine has a pair of Sennheiser HD560 (I think), and his impression was always that they ripped his head off.
They did, on the headphone output of his ancient NAD3030.
I borrowed them and listened to them using my Solo SRGII, and found them to be far more neutral sounding than the Sennheiser HD650 I'd heard.
And I liked the HD560.

When I returned the HD560 I took the Solo SRGII too, and my pal was stunned with what he heard.
He hasn't bought a Graham Slee headphone amp, but it's on his list of things to do - he fancies building a kit.
Mine was a slightly loaded question as the headphones they have to work with nowadays are not as balanced as say the HD250 Linear II. I would not even be surprised if people do it freelance from their home studios where  there is little external control over their equipment... Although the fat cats will always rule everything.

Funny you should say that as I love that performance but have not noticed the imbalance... Is it more noticeable on speakers than headphones?

Sadly every single element of the audio chain has to carefully considered. He is going to be over the moon with a headphone amp from Graham!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John1479 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 8:42pm
I think this website is relevant to the discussion. Saddened to read the about the recent mindless vandalism. Or something more deliberate? Some people are scum. 

Album list - Dynamic Range Database

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by John1479 John1479 wrote:

I think this website is relevant to the discussion. Saddened to read the about the recent mindless vandalism. Or something more deliberate? Some people are scum. 

Album list - Dynamic Range Database


I think more and more the record companies are looking to cheap out and cut costs. One way to do that is on the mastering front. Rather than have a new album or reissue mastered specifically for different markets, e.g. the streaming folks that listen on $10 earbuds vs. the audiophiles and music nerds, they just have one version mastered. And of course that version is going to be the loudness war version. Sadly even a lot of the newer remasters coming out on sites like HDTracks et. al are completely squashed with all the life and dynamic range sucked out. 

Look at the latest Iron Maiden HD remasters for example. That was an opportunity to do things right but it didn't happen, instead they are loud and compressed. Had they been done right I would have purchased them, but no dice from me. I stick with the pre-1998 CDs which may have some shortcomings but remain the best available digital versions. Similar things have happened with many bands, old and new. You have to do your research and take everything on a case by case basis IMHO. 
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote John1479 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2019 at 9:55pm
I think you're onto something with the 'earbud' generation. Listening to music on mobile (smartLOL) phones. (not my bag) but it's how many many people enjoy music. Therefore perhaps the industry are mastering for this prime user. Vinyl pressing is a secondary (or worse) consideration.....?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John1479 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2019 at 7:58am
The principle album I use is John Martyn, Solid Air. 1973.

Beautifully recorded on the original vinyl. The Abbey Road half speed remastered reissue of 2016 is taken from a digital master. (only realised this after listening, disappointments and subsequent research into recording) There are audible differences especially in vocal positions. Not an improvement on the original! 
Why the remastering engineers always think they know best, is beyond me! It must be an EGO thing. (Or perhaps they were recording for headphones????) 
Worth considering when looking for the 'best' version. 

Fantastic combination of acoustic and electronic instruments. Good mix of tempo's and vocal performance makes this hard to better for an overall setup record IMHO Smile

I link this to give a flavour only. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UikPQOaJpfU


Edited by John1479 - 28 Sep 2019 at 8:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Firth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2019 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by John1479 John1479 wrote:

The principle album I use is John Martyn, Solid Air. 1973.

Beautifully recorded on the original vinyl. The Abbey Road half speed remastered reissue of 2016 is taken from a digital master. (only realised this after listening, disappointments and subsequent research into recording) There are audible differences especially in vocal positions. Not an improvement on the original! 
Why the remastering engineers always think they know best, is beyond me! It must be an EGO thing. (Or perhaps they were recording for headphones????) 
Worth considering when looking for the 'best' version. 

Fantastic combination of acoustic and electronic instruments. Good mix of tempo's and vocal performance makes this hard to better for an overall setup record IMHO Smile

I link this to give a flavour only. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UikPQOaJpfU


Seeing red and tilting at windmills are we?
You need to calm down a bit.

It's a great pity that original pressings from 1973 in unplayed condition aren't readily available.

You have an opinion.
That's fine.
You could have left it at a simple "I'm not taken with it", but no, in the world of black and white it's an abomination.

A lot more consideration before posting wouldn't go amiss.

Ta Wink







Edited by Chris Firth - 28 Sep 2019 at 1:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John1479 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Sep 2019 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by Chris Firth Chris Firth wrote:

Originally posted by John1479 John1479 wrote:

The principle album I use is John Martyn, Solid Air. 1973.

Beautifully recorded on the original vinyl. The Abbey Road half speed remastered reissue of 2016 is taken from a digital master. (only realised this after listening, disappointments and subsequent research into recording) There are audible differences especially in vocal positions. Not an improvement on the original! 
Why the remastering engineers always think they know best, is beyond me! It must be an EGO thing. (Or perhaps they were recording for headphones????) 
Worth considering when looking for the 'best' version. 

Fantastic combination of acoustic and electronic instruments. Good mix of tempo's and vocal performance makes this hard to better for an overall setup record IMHO Smile

I link this to give a flavour only. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UikPQOaJpfU


Seeing red and tilting at windmills are we?
You need to calm down a bit.

It's a great pity that original pressings from 1973 in unplayed condition aren't readily available.

You have an opinion.
That's fine.
You could have left it at a simple "I'm not taken with it", but no, in the world of black and white it's an abomination.

A lot more consideration before posting wouldn't go amiss.

Ta Wink



You're way off target here.  'Calm down.' What? 

Nonsense. That's a real pity you choose to interpret that way. 

Point out exactly what's your point? 

Then I'll make a rational decision. 

Thank you. Smile



John
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