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1970s Design Indulgence |
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Graham Slee
Admin Group Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16298 |
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Whilst on the subject of bootstrapping, referring to the article at https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Wireless-World/60s/Wireless-World-1965-01.pdf, page 7 (page 10 of the PDF), quote:
"(ii) The bootstrap capacitor C6, while linearizing the l.f. response may also induce distortion by pulling Vt3 into the non-linear (bottoming) region of its characteristic on large negative-going signals. It has therefore proved worthwhile to connect a 1k resistor in series to minimize this effect." This might be an option for the power amplifier of this discussion. Contrary to the above I do not think it will improve distortion - it will most probably make it worse, but taking a look at the first image on page 22 of this topic, it can be seen that the typical open-loop slope is curtailed rather abruptly by the a.c. coupling, and although its low frequency fall here is a controlled 20dB/decade, it is rather much steeper since catering for the low frequency anomalies discussed since. Although with negative feedback applied it exhibits a stable low frequency roll-off, negative feedback can suffer a number of failure modes, especially in a power amplifier being called upon to drive the complex impedances of some loudspeaker crossovers. It is my preference to see some degree of flatness to the open-loop response, and this can be made to happen through local negative feedback. However, a feedback resistor between collector and base of T2 (DC voltage readjusted) didn't yield the expected results. Reducing open-loop gain by inserting some resistance in the bootstrap, and in this case 1k (the equivalent of the 1k in the article would have been 1.6k here by the way) shows in simulation flatness from around 100Hz to 2kHz. This reduces 1kHz negative feedback from around 48dB to 42dB, which is half, and might result in 1kHz THD increasing to 0.07% from roughly 0.035% at present. If however it gives a subjectively better bass response it will in my opinion have made an improvement. I shall report my findings. |
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Graham Slee
Admin Group Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16298 |
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Incredibly gain was reduced by just 0.05dB and distortion remained close to what was previously measured. I will have a good listen later. Perhaps I should rename this topic 1960s Design Indulgence?
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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Graham Slee
Admin Group Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16298 |
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Sounding quite nice. Plenty of o's in smooth - but still extremely detailed and "nicely clean". It has "big boys" bass which is quite impressive coming out of the Harbeth M20's (the pro version of the P3ESR).
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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Graham Slee
Admin Group Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16298 |
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Quote from Jack Dinsdale writing in Hi-Fi News 1996: "it can fairly be said 35 years after its inception that the performance of the Tobey-Dinsdale amplifier, while representing a break-through at the time, was no match for the excellent circuit designs which were to follow".
Well, Messrs Tobey and Dinsdale, if you're still alive and well, listen to the Proprius, and listen to the power amplifier in this topic. The circuit designs which followed might measure "better" but I doubt they sound any better than your work brought up to date. And unlike Mr Leak, I didn't know such configurations were yours and H C Lin's (from 1956) - I was born in 1955. I learned about the shunt series pair from electronics magazines in the 70's - I used the quazi-complimentary output stage in my disco work. But Mr Leak brazenly copied the Tobey-Dinsdale amplifier verbatim and called it the Leak Stereo 30! I see copied circuits all the time, and customers heap praise on these manufacturers - shame on you! But then again, you were not to know? |
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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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Graham Slee
Admin Group Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16298 |
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In addition to my last post on this topic, the reader might be interested to know of this amplifiers original use? It was to control the movements of a very special British invention: the VTOL otherwise known as the Harrier Jump Jet. I feel honoured to be working with the same configurations as used by these brilliant engineers.
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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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morris_minor
Moderator Group Joined: 27 Mar 2012 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 6029 |
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I'd be intrigued to know, Graham, how this amp controlled Harrier movements . . .
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Bob
Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
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BackinBlack
Senior Member Joined: 05 Feb 2012 Location: Hinton, N'hants Status: Offline Points: 2020 |
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That's probably classified, knowing might cost you your life!!
Nevertheless, I find this adventure quite fascinating and look forward to hearing the result.
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Just listen, if it sounds good to you, enjoy it.
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