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1970s Design Indulgence

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 9:24am
What was intended to be the last prototype, has now been fully assembled and tested.

The more we do, the more we learn, and MUR120 diodes have a smaller forward voltage than 1N4148 signal diodes - I wish I'd known!

The Vbe multiplier voltage should be 52mV plus 4 x Vbe, which if Vbe is 0.6V, makes it 2.452V.

The two thermal feedback diodes (attached to the transistors) plus a third one, to make the voltage up, produce 1.65V, leaving 0.802V to be made up by the Vq adjust trimmer.

Approx. 7.5mA flows in the VAS, and so the resistive element of the passive Vbe multiplier would need to be greater than 106 ohms.

To reach the voltage uttered by Doug Self, 2.88V, requires 164 ohms.

Having not measured the eventual resistance once adjusted up, I will instead say that I had to put a 120 ohm resistor in series with a 50 ohm trimmer to obtain the correct adjustment range. The target voltage is achieved somewhere between 106 ohms and 164 ohms.

I think it would be better served by an extra diode instead of the increased resistance, as the diode has a smaller resistance.

The reasoning being that even with the bootstrap, the current in the VAS must vary somewhat on transients. If the trimming resistance is large, Vq must change more than if it were small.

The 120 ohm series resistor simply makes that Vq "floppy" and so it's back to the workbench to swap it for another MUR120 diode.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 6:09pm
I'm hoping to be able to confidently say that the resistance of the "Vbe stretcher" (here I call it a stretcher as it isn't a multiplier), has some effect on sound quality.

Most commercial Vbe multipliers have some resistance, but it's small and usually around 20 ohms plus the transistor's emitter resistance.

Here, because of the addition of a fourth diode, the trimmer is 50 ohms, and when adjusted for the correct Vq, is nearer to 30 ohms, and so closer to a commercial Vbe multiplier than with the 120 ohm "padding resistor."

With the 120 ohms in series with the trimmer the sound was likened to overshoot, and had poor bass - even though the measurements were no different.

Such resistance is sometimes bypassed with a capacitor, but it would need to be a rather large capacitor value to cover the lowest bass. An electrolytic would be needed, and the leakage current would extend set-up time to hours before the correct Vq settled.

I therefore prefer a little resistance as long as it only contributes a tiny fraction to transient non-linearity. The negative feedback should easily polish it off.

Considering that this resistance can cause a difference in subjective sound quality, I feel justified in making the Vbe stretcher passive. Consider that a transistor used for that purpose can suffer instability due to it having beta, whereas diodes don't.

The downside is in having to fine-adjust Vq yourself, requiring an additional potentiometer and meter on each channel - but, you can be confident your Vq is what it should be, rather than blindly hoping it is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2021 at 10:10pm
You can read about thermal track transistors here: https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/AND8196-D.PDF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 6:40am
Thermal tracking transistors were designed to eliminate Vbe multipliers by providing a fool proof diode chain Vbe stretcher, which optimised their bias voltage and removed the worry of thermal runaway. They had, within limits, zero temperature coefficient. It was made possible by incorporating a diode on the transistor chip.

It had one major drawback; you had to parallel pairs of output transistors to match the number of drivers, plus output; so in a 'double', as here, you have a driver and an output transistor, making two Vbe drops, and so you needed two sets of output transistors in parallel to obtain the two diode drops. A 'triple' you needed three sets of output transistors in parallel to obtain the three diode drops.

Amplifier on test

In this (and many other designs), just one pair of output transistors is required and can easily reach 100 watts into 8 ohms, given sufficient voltage. I don't want to parallel another pair, and even if I did, the drivers would suffer the additional load and twice the capacitance!

The result must have been poor sales, and so the thermal track went out of fashion as quickly as it came. It had, however, shone a light on the thermal feedback imperfection of relying on heatsink temperature to maintain a 'healthy' bias. The best place to monitor the temperature had always been the transistor itself, but gluing a diode to an output transistor would have been messy in mass production. Here, the amateur can score over the manufacturers by having the time to stick the diode to the most appropriate part of the transistor.

It then leaves the need for two other diodes to match the pair of drivers. This used to be done with one diode and a trimming resistor - the way I had it - but in my earlier post, using the equivalent to the thermal track diode, I found I needed two.

If I left the trimming resistor out to leave just the four diode chain, I would have virtually no resistance in the Vbe stretcher and zero non-linearity in this part of the VAS load. The inventors of the thermal track must have understood that this was a 'pinch point' for distortion. The thermal track hedges its bets by under biasing, even though it claims not to. It might provide perfect class-B bias, but I'm running it in class-AB, at the optimum before gm-doubling occurs. That requires a tiny bit more bias, hence the need for a trimming resistor to 'pad it out.

The extra diode and smaller value trimming resistor approximately quartered non-linearity in this part of the VAS load, compared to the one diode and larger trimming resistor.

The action of the two diodes simply sat on the board not only satisfies the Vbe stretcher voltage drop but will also act on temperature stability by being subjected to the ambient temperature inside the case.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sylvain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2021 at 9:16am
Steady as she goes Graham....

And thank you for the detail investigation and congratulation for the effective solutions ....the mind of a true Audio Amp Designer as yours much respected and valued. 
I have bought many Amplifiers for my 66 years to read from One Hifi review much venerated but very minute reference like'' it is a capable Unit BUT have heard better from similar transistors ....''' and so on ....market forces .....compromises ...BUT NOT here in your hands 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sylvain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2021 at 11:32am
Graham, forgive me if my text is inappropriate at this time.

But i like the analogue tone and balance of Proprius. The HIFI industry sponsor D-class amp that is yet to be fully develop to the quality and musicality of Analogue design. My ears are tuned from birth to accoutic analogue reproduce musicality and having followed your meticulous research and development and very excited of a DAK offer ....would you offer any details whether the Power amp will be offered in 'Module' amp board, power board module, and whether a Pre-amp dedicated module is intended. Any pricing !!!!!!!!!

Long live ANALOGUE true musical reproduction and amplification.

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2021 at 10:03pm
I don't want to pre-judge the amplifier in its present form, but if it continues to sound like it does now - after a week on all the time - then it's been worth the effort.
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