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1970s Design Indulgence

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 4:26pm
Another way of reducing toroidal transformer saturation is to listen really loud!

Isn't efficiency great? Best not waste anything, and toroidals are really efficient, and not dissimilar in some respects to a ferroresonant transformer, in the way of tight regulation.

Lightly loaded, the toroidal easily saturates, so you might wonder why they're so popular, especially in hi-fi. If one thing really contributes to the metallic sound of hi-fi, it is a saturated toroidal transformer.

Perhaps we should use an underrated transformer? If we did, the saturation would decrease before things got really loud. An underrated transformer would not be able to deliver the full power of a design. Still, it could be designed to provide more power and never use it. Perhaps the marketing department could call it headroom?

Earlier in these ramblings, we looked at underrating to rid ourselves of the buzzing due to distorted mains ("DC on the mains"). With the help of Mr. Self, we found 70% was relatively safe.

The amplifier started out as being around 50 WPC, but its power has reduced to meet the specification. 300 VA was just right for 50 WPC, but we're now at 40 watts. It should need 360 VA, and 70% of that is 252 VA.

Even then, at normal domestic listening levels, the load on the transformer is relatively tiny. Using the same maths for a ten-watt amp, we only need a 126 VA transformer, covering all domestic listening levels. The transformer might heat to destruction during a full-power test, however. Still, the load at normal listening levels might be sufficient to "unsaturate" the transformer and reduce its harmonic output.

Lift the lids of several hi-fi amps, and the transformers look a bit small compared with the bulk of the 300VA unit used in this amplifier. Perhaps their designers have crossed this bridge?

However, reliability matters, and you never know if the amplifier will be used with 4-ohm speakers at disco sound levels. So what is the answer? It might sound silly, but how about switching a dual secondary transformer to remove a secondary, making it 150 VA? The switch could be labeled so the user would be in no doubt why it exists.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 11:58am
Another way of making a pi filter is to stick with Cordell's resistor!

Coil winding is a bit akin to witchcraft - you're never too sure what the inductor is really doing, and it picks up hum.

LC filters are great for their depth of cut, where RC filters do -6dB/octave.

The LC filter can, under certain conditions, peak before it cuts, and I'd have to do a scientific experiment to really see what the particular inductor in this pi filter was up to.

A resistor, on the other hand, is entirely predictable. The only thing is you can't use much resistance, or you lose too much HT voltage.

Examining Cordell's 0R22 with his 10,000uF filter capacitance, he got -3dB at 120Hz. Cordell was after reducing buzz, to obtain really low noise, whereas I want to reduce the transformer's saturation harmonics.

Inserting 0R22 in place of the inductor, I have 3,360uF following it. The -3dB frequency will be 200Hz (by mental arithmetic - the calculator says 215Hz). 2kHz will be attenuated to 1/10th, and at the sibilance frequencies, hopefully, a bit more.

0R22 drops 1 volt at the full amplifier output, so we have to accept it won't give us 40 watts anymore. If it were 40 WPC, the current is 4.5 amps, so the resistor will dissipate 4.5 watts in heat during full power analysis. For it to run cool while testing, a rating of 25 watts is my suggestion.

I had 5 x 1-ohm 2-watt resistors, which I paralleled, and soldered underneath my "smoother board." At 10 watts rating, I will worry about the heat melting the solder. So if the amplifier suddenly goes off during testing, I'll know why.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 9:46am
It must be really confusing and challenging to understand audio-electronics. At one moment, you're being told about PSRR. The next, you're being told that an amplifier's output is signal-modulated power supply.

PSRR (power supply rejection ratio) isn't about rejecting the steady direct current (DC), which the amplifier needs to "chop up" into a continuously sampled facsimile of the source (analogue). PSRR exists because power supplies are basically sh*t.

After abusing down the toroidal supply, recently made measurements showed distortion bumps at 100Hz (the ripple frequency) and 300Hz. I understand the 100Hz, but not the 300Hz.

I am not even going to analyse these power supply anomalies. Instead, I am scrapping the toroidal supply altogether and reverting to the laminated transformers.

The PSRR of this amplifier is primitive, but in their day, they worked. Therefore, they should still work today. If they don't, then the power supply must be different. It is different - it is a toroidal transformer-based power supply (or was).

Magnetising current increases with voltage, and the increase in magnetising current increases core saturation. Designed to pull 11.5mA at 240 volts, the transformer pulled 16mA on 240 volts - the reason being the mains frequency. The transformer was tested on 60Hz but is being used on 50Hz. It is the equivalent of increasing the voltage 17% (which incidentally agrees with Rod Elliott's article). It increases core saturation by 48%.

Now, this is a good transformer. Matters get much worse using an off the shelf toroidal transformer from the distributors. Core currents become incredibly high, which is not only wasteful but places the transformer well into saturation. This might be OK for a circuit with a large PSRR but will put saturation harmonics well and truly in the signal modulation of primitive amplifier design.

Such harmonics might contribute in some small way to the overall THD of the amplifier, but mainly, it contributes to the transient harmonics, where we are unable to measure, which leaves it up to the designer's ears.

In some ways, it is akin to clutching at straws. It is, in fact, just one of many variables that can adversely affect the sound. However, each of these variables must be discovered and dealt with, but in modern amplifier design, were obviously not and became the equivalent of op-amps, which care little about their power supply - the reason being PSRR. The circuit complexity required takes us straight to today's pattern-part designs.

The reasoning above suggests that the laminated transformer and primitive amplifier are inextricably connected.


Edited by Graham Slee - 20 Oct 2020 at 9:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sylvain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 2:34pm
It must be really confusing and challenging to understand audio-electronics. At one moment, you're being told about PSRR. The next, you're being told that an amplifier's output is signal-modulated power supply.

certainly trying Prof

I  had bought over the years all Linear power  I could lay my hands ... 'Firestone audio...I have three of 12v and  24 volts and Dr White ....told me it is a matter of ''ripples control and effect''

I have a good collection of  Rotel toroidal amplifiers and Denon  core transformer amp 300b  valve  large and also  Proprius  switch mode ...so very interested if only I can also Understand the technically 
 toroidal cake and many
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 6:07pm
Of course, it may be me who's out of step. It's known that adding 2nd harmonic distortion makes for a more punchy - power-chord - sound. The problem with that is it obliterates whatever is in the space it occupies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2020 at 7:00am
My semi-retirement project - this darned amplifier - might end up in my coffin with me.

I don't think it can ever be finished. It is the Lin amplifier (not to be confused with L*nn), which was commercialised in the UK by Leak. However, the Stereo 30 was an integrated and contained a switchable HF cut filter, and by now, I fully understand why.

The Delta and Wharfedale Linton amplifiers followed. These used the singleton (or inverted PNP) single transistor input stage, where the earlier models used the "Dinsdale" NPN. Mitsubishi also made a Stereo 30 equivalent, and just about every amplifier up to the mid-70s followed very similar topographies.

The Leak and Wharfedale units, although carefully built, had wiring all over the place, with several inches of hook-up wire between driver and output transistors. Japanese designs featured much shorter wiring, and my design cuts that right down to about one inch of PCB track.

All the designs were powered using laminated transformers, a bridge rectifier, smoother capacitor(s), and all used output capacitors.

My design has now re-reverted to the laminated transformers, using those developed to fit my requirements by Trans-Tronic. Previously it used off-the-shelf laminated transformers from RS.

The objection to laminated transformers is hum and buzz. Even if the speaker hum is so low as to be difficult to hear with an ear pressed to grille cloth, case hum/buzz is often annoying.

With the help of magnetics expert Rob Marshall of Cermag (also the case maker), I was at last able to grasp how the "eddies" couple into the chassis and how the various techniques of reducing hum work.

There are two laminated transformers. They were initially intended to be separate supplies for left and right channels, but that resulted in a stereo distortion loop. I decided to parallel them so that they combine to provide 200 VA. However, realising the eddy current "rotations," I wired them "anti-parallel," which effectively attenuated chassis noise.

Power Amplifier Power Supply

Having built the new power supply and reinstalled the power amplifier boards, it was put through its paces on the analyser. With only 200 VA, it comes as no surprise to find the available power output is lower. Still, 35 watts per channel isn't weedy for a domestic amplifier. Remember, the Delta 70 was so-called because it did 35 watts per channel (35 + 35 = 70).

With new smoothers, it was bound to sound bouncy in the bass. I'm sure it will wear off, but in doing so, my hope is it will not take away the deeper bass, which it appeared to be doing. The entire sound stage opened up to reveal a greater perspective and detail than with the toroidal supply.

We shall see (hear) what happens over the coming days.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2020 at 6:30pm
By shutting some part of the global NFB resistor at a high frequency, the shelving down effectively adds to the loop-gain by 3dB at that frequency. This additional loop gain reduces THD, and is very valuable at high frequencies, where conventional methods result in rising high frequency distortion.

This technique simulates as giving additional negative feedback between 20kHz and 800kHz, with double what it was at 100kHz.

The additional "control" is within the parasitic instability range, and might help there too.

The frequency response flatness suffers only by another -1dB at 20kHz.

Increasing HF NFB


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