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Why Vinyl?? |
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Richardl60
Senior Member Joined: 04 Nov 2014 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1468 |
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As said previously it does depend on the recording. I have a number of CDs which are subjectivity a lot more dynamic and have a wider dynamic range than my LP. I have some poor LP pressings from the 70s&80s which the CD (remastered) in some cases are far better. I have few recent LPs the only one I did double up in was last George Ezra both of which appear equally compressed.
I suppose this is one of the reasons for not buying much new music (together with getting older!) |
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Fatmangolf
Moderator Group Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Location: Middlesbrough Status: Offline Points: 8960 |
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Some early CD releases were okay with similar DR to the LP version. I keep an eye for these for ripping. If unavailable I v-rip the LP which sounds better as you have already said.
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Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
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dillon
Senior Member Joined: 12 Oct 2011 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 214 |
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Absolutely Jon. The loudness war epidemic didn't truly come along in a big way until the 90s - Oasis' Definitely Maybe on CD is often quoted as year zero. Even though ADC equipment was still in its infancy quality wise, at least the dynamic range was left intact on those CDs. Compare most any original CD by, say the Cocteau Twins, to the remastered CDs and the difference is stark. Technology has improved massively in the chain from back then, so there is no excuse for badly compressed and loudly mastered/remastered CDs. Why is it so difficult to improve the actual sound quality of those less than stellar recordings of the past whilst retaining the dynamics?! It isn't.
I also vinyl rip those albums where the digital DR numbers are bad. If they are available on vinyl at all. |
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Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace w Space Arm & Dynavector 10x5 HOMC/GSP Revelation M/John Sampson upgraded Meridian 508.24 CDP/Sony 777ES SACD/ProAc Response D18/GSP Solo ULDE/GSP cables and ICs
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Richardl60
Senior Member Joined: 04 Nov 2014 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1468 |
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I couldn’t agree more Over the compression argument.
So far as remastering goes, whilst I have come across some really good results but ultimately the original master is likely to be a limiting factor? For example if the original recording was made for example on something like a Teac 3440 4 track reel to reel at 3 3/4 ips this WILL limit the possibilities particularly if tracks were re-recorded individual mics/music lines, vocals etc. If something isn’t missing at the outset it can’t really be dragged out at a later date simply by remastering. The original master series on CD does have some really good recordings for their vintage (from the examples I have tried), albeit doobie brothers wasn’t anything special. |
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dillon
Senior Member Joined: 12 Oct 2011 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 214 |
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Indeed. You have to work with the original tapes and the recording itself may well have been less than stellar to begin with. Rubbish in> Rubbish out. The other big issue is of course the physical long term damage that old tapes suffer from. St some point they become unuseable after repeated runs or environmental damage . DSD was a tool, let's not forget, that Sony chose to archive their master tapes. High bit rate PCM likewise is widely used for the same purpose. So we now have a situation where record companies are relying on these digitized archival quality files to produce records and reissues. And then there is the scenario of companies literally dumping master tapes in bins to make room in their vaults! Leaving only a safety copy, and at times not even that, so using third generation or acetates of vinyl. Arghhh. Stand up RCA who dumped a whole pile of Elvis goodies..lost forever. Tapes get lost or stolen or taped over too. Again, Elvis' singular and historically important Sun tapes are some of the most famous examples. The best surviving sources for 3 or 4 key recordings are now 78RPM transfers of mint original Sun singles!
Unless you have the original multitracks, remixing is out. Mastering can only be done after mixing. Its the final stage tweaking of the album. Compression has been with us since the beginning in rock, pop n soul. Listen to any 50s singles, Motown, glam rock etc and you find that pumped up, loud jukebox and AM radio sound. But judicious use of compression on individual instruments/parts can be essential for equalisation. Sensible use is the key. Dare I say there are only a handful of truly great mastering engineers out there? It's such a highly skilled operation! |
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Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace w Space Arm & Dynavector 10x5 HOMC/GSP Revelation M/John Sampson upgraded Meridian 508.24 CDP/Sony 777ES SACD/ProAc Response D18/GSP Solo ULDE/GSP cables and ICs
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Fatmangolf
Moderator Group Joined: 23 Dec 2009 Location: Middlesbrough Status: Offline Points: 8960 |
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Nothing lasts forever Dil, entropy applies to signals on recording media like everything else. I agree about the compression being part of the recordings we are used to hearing and the skill involved.
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Jon
Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC. |
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dillon
Senior Member Joined: 12 Oct 2011 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 214 |
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Ha! Only you could introduce the Second Law of Thermodynamics into a discussion on vinyl Jon lol. But its so totally appropriate.
The other funky thing is of course, Jon and I have stacks and stacks of punk and post punk lo-fi records. Hifi considerations go out the window for most of those LPs believe me! Which leaves us with - guess what? Yeah, something called the actual joy of the music, y'know? |
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Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace w Space Arm & Dynavector 10x5 HOMC/GSP Revelation M/John Sampson upgraded Meridian 508.24 CDP/Sony 777ES SACD/ProAc Response D18/GSP Solo ULDE/GSP cables and ICs
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