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Welcome to the Graham Slee Audio Products Owners Forum  Open to all owners plus those contemplating the purchase of a Graham Slee HiFi System Components audio product and wishing to use this forum's loaner program: join here (Rules on posting can be found here) This website along with trade marks Graham Slee and HiFi System Components are owned by Cadman Enterprises Ltd |
Thoughts on upgrade paths |
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Razamanaz 
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Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Location: Uppland, Sweden Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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 Posted: 11 May 2017 at 1:59pm |
Thanks. Looked it up and it seems to be available from one of my local dealers (although temporarily out of stock). Looks like a good candidate. Some googling also reveals that many Lenco owners are happy with it. I have so far only been looking at MM carts (and Nagaoka, which is MI), but since the Denon is a high ouput MC it's made to work with a phono pre for MM, right? Interesting. Cheers!
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Simon
"And some people say it's just rock n' roll Oh, but it gets you right down to your soul" (Push The Sky Away, Nick Cave) |
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Richardl60
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Joined: 04 Nov 2014 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1468 |
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Posted: 11 May 2017 at 2:24pm |
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I am sure this a dilemma nearly all of us have faced.
There are a number of issues you will be considering many of them financially based and broadly have a foot in the front end and the output (speakers). Your cartridge choice may be restricted by limitations in your arm and you are not getting the full benefit. My thought process has always been if you get something which is going to be kind to your records physically (stylus shape, tracking etc) this will bring longer term benefits even if you cannot hear them all initially and cost is likely to be more modest than other pieces of kit. One other point to remember that cartridges may be more difficult to sell/upgrade in the future that hardware. Arm and TT will need to be matched together and/or with the cartridge and will not only bring their own benefits but allow the cartridge to shine through. I used to believe the phono stages did matter but not really as much as most other components. As I have moved up Grahams range to the Accession/Elevator they certainly do! Whilst they will only be as good as what you are feeding in to them, they shouldn't taint the end results but the further up the range you go the more benefit you will receive. I started at the Era Gold V and moved up in two stages from there. One further point if you wanted to settle on a lower end product initially you could always upgrade and know there will be a ready market for it later. Amp - will be down to your own needs - you have identified the NAD as a potential weak link - the main benefit I would see from upgrading the amp early is that this should benefit all sources you are using. Personally I have found that whilst amps do make a significant difference, perhaps not the biggest bang for the buck vs other items. Speakers I believe are very personal and will be down to your taste and room. If you really know (or think you know what you want) then fine but personally would be reluctant to launch in with a lot of money without a clear thought process. They will allow the other items to shine through but CAN show up shortcomings if they are present further up the chain, you could find something sounds quite poor in your system due to poor matching or any of the earlier components which is not the fault of the speakers. The other issue is over matching. In a perfect world cartridges, arms, TT, phono stages, amps and speakers would all present a similar and well balanced sound. They do not so some care should be taken and in particular not to try and balance out one extreme to another. One saving grace here is that Grahams Phono stages do not (IMO) provide a significant variation form natural/neutral i.e. they are very well balanced. Don't forget cables. Whilst there is a divergence of views they can make a significant difference but that will depend on the cable used (taking here or mains, interconnects and speaker cables). Grahams interconnects are keenly priced and provide a sensible and reliable starting point. Sounds like you are heading down an expensive road but sure it will be very pleasurable along the way. PS whilst the loan scheme is a great way to explore Grahams range, another option I have used for hardware (mainly electronics) is 'pre-owned' from a good source, so long as you know what you want and can be moved on at minimal cost later on assuming a quality product. |
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morris_minor
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Joined: 27 Mar 2012 Location: Surrey Status: Offline Points: 6017 |
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Posted: 11 May 2017 at 6:16pm |
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Another factor to consider on the phono amp side is the power supply. The Era Gold V and Reflex M can be purchased with the switched-mode plug-top power supply to keep the initial cost down, and then a PSU1 linear supply can be purchased later on.
I was a little sceptical about how much difference a power supply could make but when borrowing some kit a while ago I found I had a spare PSU1 to use with my Solo headphone amp (which I'd bought with the plug-top PS). I didn't really think anything of it. But when the time came to send the borrowed kit back and the Solo got it's own PS back, headphone listening was nowhere near as dynamic and spacious as it had been with the PSU1. I think there's often more of a difference when removing a piece of kit than when adding it - you look for something different when you first hear a new piece of equipment. After acclimatisation removing it makes its contribution (if that's what it is!) quite obvious . . .
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Bob
Majestic DAC/pre-amp Accession MC/Enigma, Accession MM, Reflex M, Elevator EXP, Era Gold V Solo ULDE, Novo, Lautus USB and digital, Libran balanced, CuSat50 2 x Proprius + Spatia/Spatia Links |
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Richardl60
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Joined: 04 Nov 2014 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1468 |
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Posted: 11 May 2017 at 8:21pm |
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Yes excellent point bob that was the route I took with my era gold and another attraction was that it was modular and could defer some of the outlay. And yes you don't know what you have got till its gone as the song goes and is true as bob says.
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Razamanaz
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Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Location: Uppland, Sweden Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Posted: 12 May 2017 at 11:38am |
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Richard, thanks for providing so many good points. I think your "coaching" will provide some useful food for thought. I agree I seem to be heading down an expensive road, which is why I must think of it as a long term project. I realize I won't have the ultimate setup on the first attempt, but still I'd like to get as close as possible.
I noticed that the Majestic and Proprius don't seem to be available through the loaner program, but I'll worry about that when the time comes.  Bob: Yes, the PSU1 is also on the radar, but is also an easy upgrade to make at a later stage. Meanwhile, as I enthusiastically told my wife about some of the possible purchases I might make, she put her foot down and is now telling me not to make any big investments (not sure about her definition of "big" in this context, but I'm afraid it's not the same as mine). So there's some politics involved here.  I don't want to be one of those guys who complain about their wives "to the lads", but this came as a surprise to me.  I might just have to present my intentions in a different way, or maybe I have to lower my ambitions for now. I'm not ready to completely abandon my plans just yet though. Some new "boxes" will find their way to me one way or another.
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Simon
"And some people say it's just rock n' roll Oh, but it gets you right down to your soul" (Push The Sky Away, Nick Cave) |
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Richardl60
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Joined: 04 Nov 2014 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1468 |
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Posted: 12 May 2017 at 11:52am |
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Big plans can come in little (GSP) boxes😉
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Razamanaz
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Joined: 14 Oct 2016 Location: Uppland, Sweden Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Posted: 15 May 2017 at 11:50am |
Such wisdom!
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Simon
"And some people say it's just rock n' roll Oh, but it gets you right down to your soul" (Push The Sky Away, Nick Cave) |
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