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Accession for Moving Coil

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shashirao View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shashirao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2017 at 2:56am
Thanks Andrew and Jon - I spent a few more hours working on improving the cartridge alignment till my eyes are all squinty. The effort was certainly worth it - the cartridge is aligned as best as I can see.

The sound has certainly improved - the clarity is enhanced. I can also hear the supporting instruments to a certain extent. The vocals and lead instruments still command center stage...their clarity is awesome to the point of being in a live performance. 

I am going to test run the cartridge for another 20 odd hours and will continue to revisit all those artifacts I thought I heard better in my MC setup. My focus will be on those support instruments - usually the bass guitar, violins and small percussion instruments.

And for whatever reasons, in my past 10+ hours of listening to 2M Black...I have not heard it going out of control...as in a jarring or shrill note....so that is certainly a new level of nice for me.

Cheers
Shashi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcourtney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 12:51am
Shashi -  I have been using 2M Black with Accession for over 14 months, with various arms on my Pink Triangle PT1, you just need to give it more time my friend, when I got to about 100 hours of Accession and 2M Black - it was really magical in every sense of the word Smile

I have friends with £10,000 or more spent on their vinyl replay systems - and are very envious of my little Accession amp - fortunately for me I have not felt the need to go MC in over 35 years, but I was spoilt back in the mid seventies when my dad bought his Beogram 4000 - that was the benchmark for me, he still has it, and it sounds incredible, nearly as good as my Beogram 8002 with MMC1 cart 


Edited by pcourtney - 22 Nov 2017 at 12:51am
GS Accession MM Pre, Red Wine Audio Signature 30.2 Amp and AKG K-1000 headphones
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 8:22pm
One recent borrower of the loan unit said "Now I see what you were talking about. My OM30 and TD 160 sound like a new system. I am hearing good things I didn't know were on my records." He has ordered his own Accession now so I should get my Genera and the loan Accession back soon!

Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pcourtney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 8:35pm
I do hope you get it back soon Jon, and with the OM30 at the sharp end you have a great MM

when I first bought my PT1 back in 1981 it came with an Ortofon 30E, and sounded incredible, I have a few SME 30E's now as back ups, what a combination with the SME III arm, no wonder I preferred it to the L*nn Sondek stuff of the time 




GS Accession MM Pre, Red Wine Audio Signature 30.2 Amp and AKG K-1000 headphones
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 9:58pm
Couldn't agree more and that's a very good photo Peter.

It's a close colleague's Thorens deck and came second hand with a SME Series II Improved which sounded very good with the OM5 I aligned for him. Which would leave me jealous of the OM30 stylus he since fitted Big smile if I didn't know how much he was enjoying it!

It was stripping, cleaning, and refitting that SII Improved that persuaded me to start looking for a sensibly priced second hand series IV or V... that's another story with a happy ending told elsewhere - see my extensive GyroDec/Gorbe metamorphesis blog.

Busy at work and squeezing other stuff in so I still haven't taken the Goldring 1042 MM off my Series IV tonearm and have played some more LP's tonight. As I wrote previously it doesn't do everything the Phoenix (over £2k new, mine was 2nd hand) MC does but I am enjoying listening to it just the same.

Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shashirao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2017 at 10:24pm
So...the 2M Black is working perfect - playing better by the minute. The MM sound is loud(er than MC) and 2M Black is quite detailed. I am still in the gray zone (as in mind not made up yet) on those extras I have come to enjoy with my MC carts.

Within the MC range - I own the Ortofon OM series, Cadenza Black Mono, Miyajima Zero, Miyajima, Kansui, Palo Santos Presentation and one of the Audio Technica cartridges. Suffice to say I have experienced the spectrum of improvement within the MC world. The Miyajima Kansui follows a different path (ring design) to overcome some of the issues Peter Ledermann mentions in his video.

So now with the new thread with Ledermann's videos, I am intrigued. As per his recommendation and chosen path, the Moving Iron (fixed coil design) or Strain Gauge is the way to go to avoid the inherent flaws in MC design that lead to interference, noise and energy interfering with audible sound.

And I am awaiting delivery of my ClearAudio Charisma. Which should put to rest any doubts or hopes of the best vinyl sound...especially from the MM world.

My question is this....is there an end to a journey? Is it possible that Ledermann is proposing his own path because he believes in it...he hears that difference. But that would mean investing in a completely different design - the Fixed Coil design. Is the effort worth it? Will I magically hear that extra layer of chorals that were hiding in the recording room closet?

I have a feeling that I have reached a point where the return on investment may not justify the investment/cost. Sure I may end up hearing a totally different style. Which I did when I switched from Ortofon OM 40 to Palo Santos Presentation to Miyajuma Kansui/Zero to now OM Black. There is hardly any cartridge that I would say plays really horrible. Like my single malts, each has its own attributes that I can perhaps put some words to....like notes of oak, leather, spice, lavendar with a hint of additional black sound, expanded soundstage and clarity in mid-range sounds.

In my opinion what has really made the difference is the pre-amp. The cartridge offers me different flavors. But the pre-amp maturing has helped stabilize the sound and provide a baseline where there is clarity, depth and amazing details.

My journey has been from the P******t Tube pre-amp...which I upgraded to use different tubes (Jolida). Then I switched over to the Revelation MC and finally to the Accession. This is where I have received and achieved the biggest bang for my buck. If I revisit my Ortofon OM series, I am sure with the Accession, I would have a much better experience and would not value an upgrade to say the OM Black as much. I mean as long as it plays the music I like in the manner it is supposed to be. Beyond that...unless the chorals bursts out of that closet and scream 'surprise!!'.

Hence I am reluctant to even take a peek at the fixed coil world of cartridges. They may have certain bells and whistles that I am not hearing. But right now...I am hearing a perfect playback of the music I love and am hard-pressed to imagine there is any sound left out.

Peter Ledermann's video is great and nice...but to me it falls short of offering any specifics on the how-to's - when it comes to azimuth, VTA, tracking or other topics. He recommends to listen, eye ball and go with the feel. I prefer tutorials on actual use of tools - like on using the Mint LP tractor or the digital scale. I do understand he cannot cover specifics for specific turntables...but I am looking for specifics.

The overall video on cartridge design....I loved the video for the theoretical. But the cynical side of me also finds that as the Fixed Coil is better than Moving Coil promo.....and by the way...we make Fixed coil sales pitch. And they start at $7.5K and go very well with VPI turntables.

So for now...I think I understand the design differences between MC, MM and MI thanks to all the detailed discussion on this forum. I also know that my 2M Black and Charisma will have enough in store to keep myself busy for another year. So my path of improvement will be amplification (Proprius with good speakers)...and if the Accession MC becomes a reality, I queue up to try it with my MC cartridges.

And yes...its my day off (Thanksgiving holiday) and thus my ramble :)

Cheers and happy holidays
Shashi
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2017 at 1:29am
Originally posted by shashirao shashirao wrote:

Beyond that...unless the chorals bursts out of that closet and scream 'surprise!!'.


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