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Proprius with a subwoofer.
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discrete badger View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Oct 2021 at 9:38pm
Great news! Happy to help! 

And good to have further evidence of the Proprius's compatibility with REL's 3-wire connection, despite REL's general concerns with monoblock amplifiers.

My current amps are dual stereos bridged to mono - one of the cases that REL's advice is most concerned with, because of the way the bridging is implemented. In this mode you connect speaker +ve to right amp +ve and speaker -ve to left amp +ve (!), and the left channel plays the inverse of the right. There is no speaker connection to the amp -ve terminals, which stay at 0v.

This also works absolutely fine with the 3-wire connection for a single REL, provided that the black wire goes to 0v (either left or right amp -ve of either amp, so basically any black-coloured speaker terminal). Connecting it to the same -ve that the speakers see would be a potentially damaging error, because it isn't 0v in this configuration. 
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Mikeh View Drop Down
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Originally posted by discrete badger discrete badger wrote:

Feels weird I know!


Tried your suggested connections to new RELs and it works a treat, halving the input to sub gives its amp more chance to warm up.  Straight out of the box they aren't very subtle but after proper break in period and setting up I suspect there will be significant improvement. 
Thanks for the supportClap
Mike

Technics sl1210g with Victor U-2
Accession MM, Majestic + Proprius, Solo ULDE
Cambridge Audio CXC CD player
Lindemann Limetree Bridge streamer
Harbeth P3ESR XD paired with 2x REL t5x
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Fatmangolf View Drop Down
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Points: 8998 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2021 at 10:21pm
Great example of a real world solution.
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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discrete badger View Drop Down
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Points: 479 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote discrete badger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2021 at 9:23pm
Feels weird I know!

But if it helps, imagine what happens with black wire on 0v (speaker -ve), yellow wire on left +ve, red wire on right +ve. Now imagine music on right channel only, and silence on left channel (perhaps via the balance control) 

Normal REL-advised connection scheme. Normal signal conditions. Subwoofer won't explode, but play right channel bass only.

Yet yellow wire is at 0v potential, same as if it were connected to speaker -ve!
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Mikeh View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikeh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2021 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by discrete badger discrete badger wrote:

I think what's happening there is the unconnected yellow is free to float and pick up hum from some source close to the cable. Connecting it to amp +ve effectively pins it to 0v (which it will be when playing no signal, when you're listening for hum) and removes the hum.

The REL amp sums L and R signals relative to ground, so on paper you could try connecting it to amp 
-ve! That should halve the REL output. I just tried it on one of mine (an older REL). When I disconnected the yellow from the amplifier +ve, hum appeared. When I connected it to amplifier -ve, hum disappeared and half output.

That's interesting. I'll give it a try. Just seems so wrong to connect +ive Speakon wire to -ive Proprius but if I works and your's hasn't blown up (!) it would remove the need for a resistor and simplifying installation.
Thanks!
Mike

Technics sl1210g with Victor U-2
Accession MM, Majestic + Proprius, Solo ULDE
Cambridge Audio CXC CD player
Lindemann Limetree Bridge streamer
Harbeth P3ESR XD paired with 2x REL t5x
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discrete badger View Drop Down
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Points: 479 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote discrete badger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2021 at 7:27pm
I think what's happening there is the unconnected yellow is free to float and pick up hum from some source close to the cable. Connecting it to amp +ve effectively pins it to 0v (which it will be when playing no signal, when you're listening for hum) and removes the hum.

The REL amp sums L and R signals relative to ground, so on paper you could try connecting it to amp 
-ve! That should halve the REL output. I just tried it on one of mine (an older REL). When I disconnected the yellow from the amplifier +ve, hum appeared. When I connected it to amplifier -ve, hum disappeared and half output.
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Mikeh View Drop Down
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Points: 541 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikeh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2021 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by discrete badger discrete badger wrote:

In a word - yes.

But - bigger picture! For a pair of (presumably identical) subwoofers you have the golden opportunity of subwoofer stereo. If that works for your room layout, then why not forget all the above and just wire red+yellow to speaker +ve, black to speaker -ve on each side, one subwoofer exclusively per speaker. The result should be superior.

Thanks for the information.
 

My intention is to install one sub per Proprius. Whenever I tried connecting the Speakon black wire to Proprius -ive ground the hum returned. I did try connecting  a RCA cable between a spare Majestic port and the REL low input to provide a ground but this did not remove the hum. Only with the two Speakon +ives to Proprius +ive gives a connection without hum.  Which I don't understand but I guess just have to go with.


Edited by Mikeh - 18 Oct 2021 at 6:10pm
Mike

Technics sl1210g with Victor U-2
Accession MM, Majestic + Proprius, Solo ULDE
Cambridge Audio CXC CD player
Lindemann Limetree Bridge streamer
Harbeth P3ESR XD paired with 2x REL t5x
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