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Best all-rounder? |
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Graham Slee
Admin Group Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16298 |
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Posted: 26 Jun 2008 at 7:07am |
One of the most difficult decisions for me is whether to go all-out for an incredible sound that only works with some gear and some records or to go for a safer "sounds good all-round" solution that may not quite reach the same heady heights, but is still good and worthy of carrying our name.
Here I'm talking about splitting hairs - one is a "gnats" better but swap a source or a pair of headphones for example, and the loss is greater than going for a "gnats" less. But in forum land where reputations are now won or lost at the click of the mouse keys of those who shout loudest, going for the best all-rounder can be taken as something abominable. Just think about it: Forum land dictates that the component world stalwarts which have done sterling service and many wonders for the ears of the masses are now total crap, to use their language. Such electronic components are rubbished vehemently and to justify their stance these people will purposely look up the cheapest distributor price and quote it to their massed audience who will then all join in the chorus like vigilantes, snubbing anyone who dares to try to do anything good. Very often their "approved" component is only a matter of pence more, but that is carefully excluded from the argument and like all vigilantes the following mob never bothers to find out or even care. How unfashionable it is to own an old Alba amplifier for example. You are only chic nowadays if you own a Naim or Musical Fidelity for example, even though that old Alba may be able to run rings around the others in the musical satisfaction stakes. Take for example the Sennheiser HD250 headphone: Where has it gone? It looks like Sennheiser have discontinued it. Why? Forum land that's why! The HD250 helped me hear all the things many of our phono preamp customers now take for granted. I know the HD600 and 650 could have never revealed these important musical treats which I needed to hear to confirm important performance criteria. I and all who try them with the Solo love them to bits and end up preferring them to the 600/650's. The exception being one reviewer but why? Could it have been the influence of the forums? So how do I justify using in a world beating performer, a component that forum land dictates is wrong? If so then the ears that just heard the world beating performance will then deny what they just heard! And what about the knowledge of these forum dictators? Listen, I've done exactly the same here as they do, pushing my doctrine against those who think different - it's not nice is it? And in some cases my own intelligence on these side subjects has been found a tad wanting. Do we have to fight the equivalent of a courtroom battle to prevent customers drifting away en-mass simply because we proved a forum no-no beat the sh1t out of a forum favourite? But forum land denied its ears and said we got it wrong? This, I suppose, was the reason I set up our own What's your take? |
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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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tg [RIP]
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 1866 |
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Graham,
some very broad ranging questions there and while it is understandable (and no doubt wisest) that you do not quote specifics, it leaves me in the dark as to whether you are talking in general, about HP amps, or about phono preamps. I am left guessing that there has been unfavourable discussion of your choice of opamps in one or the other (or both) on either d1y4ud10 or h34df1 combined with a decline in sales. My take WRT both those is that there a number of prolific posters who delight in mudslinging and WRT the latter, many of the membership are young and impressionable and very given to FOTM impulse spending. Personally, while I might browse them for info and views I do use fairly heavy filtering. WRT design choices, I see no reason for you to deviate from your proven formula of selecting the most appropriate component on specification and then tweaking it to the max with plenty of listening testing and peer review from trusted ears. At least, I have gathered that is how you do it. From a sales POV, nothing beats enthusiastic owners but they are closely followed by enthusiastic and supportive dealers, generally enthusiastic specialists rather than box shifters, though no doubt the box shifters are useful for the lower models in the range. Certainly a niche dealer with sufficient faith in the product to offer a 7 day trial or return was a big factor in my taking the plunge to try the EGV - it was a significant investment for me and then only taken after I had opportunity to trial a similar price range phono in my system for a few days to estimate the amount of improvement to be had. Others who have had opportunity to hear it have also purchased after having trialled for themselves. The more mature music lovers likely to invest in the top line phono stages are usually much more aware of system synergies and so less likely to either dismiss a component out of hand or conversely to purchase without trial. I would have severe reservations about purchasing a component that while jaw-droppingly good with some particular components and recordings was disappointing with others. I think whatever makes most of my recordings sound very good and some brilliant is more my choice. That said, the reviewers I take most notice of are those whose musical preferences and other equipment choices reflect my own - their ears I can trust - many others like things that just "do not do it" for me. FWIW - chic bothers me not a wit - good music, well replayed; that is what I want. I know/know of very few Naim owners and relatively few MF owners - but then I am in the antipodes with all the other "bloody colonials", many I know use amps made here and not just from patriotism or price either, admittedly many of those also use thermionic emission valves (mine too :p) |
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Graham Slee
Admin Group Retired Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Location: South Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 16298 |
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Not just the forums you mention...
No decline in sales yet... Just wrestling with the truth that a particularly disliked component is ******* all over the chic one. The one we were levered into using a while ago through public (forum) pressure. A case of "I am going to dictate the success or failure of Mr Slee and if he doesn't call my tune I will personally see to it through forum land that he is ruined". Believe me, that has been the case twice in our 10 year history. And those reading this will know who they are. They hold great power - satanic power. They have convinced the non-tg's of this world that anything using a particular technology or component or idea is total ****. In my experience for every tg there is a few million non-tg's. And the few million non-tg's are not only easily misled, they lust after it. And with more and more review magazines showing under the bonnet pictures, and with so many reviewers making judgement on what they see rather than what they hear, or telling themselves they are hearing what they aren't hearing becauce of a jaundiced view, do I simply go ahead and launch a product containing such an item? |
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That none should be able to buy or sell without a smartphone and the knowledge in how to use apps
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ManuelC
Regular Joined: 23 Jun 2008 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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Graham,
You've made a name for yourself and earned excellent reviews by working the way you feel is right, and making the best products you can. I suppose that's the only answer. I placed an order because I believe in recovering the sound that's in the grooves in the truest, unhindered way possible. There you go.
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tg [RIP]
Moderator Group Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Location: Sydney Status: Offline Points: 1866 |
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As Alice would say, this gets curiouser and curiouser.
Am I going to have to trawl through past threads to find out what you used before ? Hard call, go with your ears, have Dejan & Leo have a listen - try and pick your reviewers - you probably know by now who will actually listen to it. Pray - much stress is caused by trying to control outcomes that are beyond our control. It is sufficient that we do that which disturbs our conscience the least. |
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Dave Millier
Regular Joined: 29 Feb 2008 Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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Been thinking about your question.
I was looking at the specs of a Behringer analogue equalizer the other day. I noticed that one of the selling points was a valve sound control. You can disable this feature or boost it to taste. Reviewers called it a "niceness" control: the choice is yours - listen to the recording at it is or dial in some warmth. As far as I have been able to ascertain, the purpose of any "hifi" amplifier is to pass a signak from input to output without affecting the sound in anyway (other than gain, of course). So, if the recording sounds poor, it should sound poor but louder at the other end. But as we all know, 99% of recordings don't actually do hifi justice, so Niceness might save the day. I like the idea as long as it can be adjusted or disabled. (By the way, the Barb Jungr 96Khz, 24bit downloads from Linn's website really do sound fantastic on anything. If nothing else, recordings like that make very clear that improving the recording is a lot more successful at improving the reproduced sound than any efforts you or any other designer can make after the fact. If all records were made to the highest standards possible, just about any hifi kit would be capable of producing effortless superb sound).
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stuxter
Senior Member Joined: 26 Mar 2008 Status: Offline Points: 140 |
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If all records were made to the highest standards possible, just about any hifi kit would be capable of producing effortless superb sound).
do you really think so ??? |
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