New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Balanced cables
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

A REAL Hi-Fi Owners' Club Forum With REAL Members and a Loaner Program to Prove It!

A rule of fairness:
When other manufacturers websites allow people to recommend our products instead of their own then people can do the same here, but please not before! Such posts will be deleted.
See terms and conditions here...


Balanced cables

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
Richardl60 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 04 Nov 2014
Location: Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 915
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richardl60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Balanced cables
    Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 11:48am
I have received positive feedback re the use of fully balanced cables with XLR plugs. Graham uses on the Proprius. Any particular reason?

I was advised there were none on the loan scheme so have invested in some used ones that same brand etc as my current interconnects. These have arrived and will burn in as I know they take some time. Will se what happens.....
Back to Top
DaveG View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Oct 2014
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 481
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 12:36pm
I'm curious about these too. At the moment use cusat terminated with xlrs into my proprius, the balanced cables are quite a bit more. My DAC has balanced outs, not sure if the Accession does. I'd be interested to know how u get on with balanced cables

Edit: for some reason I much prefer xlr's. I just like the way they click and lock in place.


Edited by DaveG - 20 Aug 2016 at 12:55pm
Dave

Michell Gorbe + HR PSU -> Cadenza Bronze -> SME V -> Elevator -> Accession -> Proprius -> B&W CM6 s2 | Cusat 50 & Spatia cables ->
Back to Top
Richardl60 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 04 Nov 2014
Location: Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 915
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richardl60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 1:30pm
No the accession doesn't have balanced output Dave.

I agree the locks do appear a mechanically superior device. My interconnects are as I understand of balanced construction and both my amp and cd have fully balanced input/outputs.

My regular cable supplier advises that in some applications the Balanced is superior in performance others not. He also suggested that sonically the XLR used are inferior to the plugs he uses for non XLRs, so there is potentially some compromises both ways.

I will update once properly burned in.
Back to Top
Graham Slee View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Pushing the boundaries

Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Location: South Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 7405
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2016 at 8:47pm
Recordings, studio or live, plus professional broadcasts more often than not used balanced interconnections.

By balanced I mean a (usually twisted) pair of wires; one for the phase signal, and the other for the anti-phase signal. The anti-phase signal being 180 degrees opposed to the phase signal. There is also the return or common which is the screen or shield of the cable.

This requires 3 contacts, which will either be jacks of the three pole variety; either PO 316 BPO plugs or stereo jack plugs wired: phase/tip; anti-phase/ring; shield/screen(barrel). Or XLR which are wired shield/pin 1; phase (sometimes called hot)/pin 2; anti-phase (sometimes called cold)/pin 3.

Sometimes "hi-fi" people make single ended interconnects using balanced cable: signal to one conductor, ground to the other. The shield is sometimes left floating (not connected at either end) in which it serves no purpose and they may as well use speaker zip cable. Sometimes they wire the shield to one end ground terminal only, which invites RFI at roughly 100MHz and above for a 1m run. RFI has been used numerous times as a "good thing" in hi-fi because it adds "a high" to the music. So does Amyl Nitrite... Thumbs Down



Edited by Graham Slee - 20 Aug 2016 at 8:48pm
There are only two things to stop you being a success in life and they're both called Google - Notions are not solutions!
Back to Top
Richardl60 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 04 Nov 2014
Location: Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 915
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richardl60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 11:03pm
Update on my Balanced cables as requested by DaveG.

I have not seriously listened to the cables over the long burn in period.

The balanced cables are terminated with nutrick XX XLR connectors whereas my traditional phono connectors are Eichman silver bullets, cables exactly the same other than length: the balanced are 0.5m vs c30cm.

Findings:
The balanced terminated cables were more open, spacious, dynamic and more alive. Music was more enjoyable, more foot-tapping. The overall sound was a little more forward and leaner though the bass was cleaner removing a lower middle bloom whilst preserving the most extreme bass. Vocals were cleaner, clearer and more natural.

By comparison my older cables did sound a little closed in, constricted, smeary throughout the range. Presentation was a little more laid back and softer sounding and generally less engaging. Sounded a little too restrained (boring?) by comparison.

Whilst I could happily live with my traditionally wired cables and I would not wish to appear to be over-egging the difference this is one of degrees.

I will be migrating to the balanced cables - I just need to work out with my tape measure and wallet whether to keep the longer new cables or have my old ones reterminated -length will be very tight although the Balanced socket on my amp is around 5cm higher so may compensate for some loss of length.

Would I recommend them?

With my configuration of cables and Amp/cd that do have properly balanced input/output they are preferable, both to me and a close relative. Personally in my set up and with my experiences had I needed new cables I would recommend the balanced terminations but is it a big enough difference to change them everything else being the same -that is a very personal decision and will depend.

I would recommend trying some of possible assuming they are/will be fully burned in when auditioned.

When I enquired there were no balanced -balanced in the loan schem available - perhaps if John were to make some up this may be attractive for some.

Variety of music incl. Rick wakeman, vangelis, new music, the beat, art garfunkel, bee gees, blondie, steeley Dan, Alan parsons project, dire straights and some downloads. Some lack of acoustic music in the selection but I only had so many hours before switching off for bed!

Haven't spun much vinyl for the last few weeks - what a naughty boy, must try harder!

Hope this is helpful Dave?
Back to Top
Graham Slee View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Pushing the boundaries

Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Location: South Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 7405
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 7:27am
I think we ought to have the Libran balanced cables available on the loaner program and will ask John about it.

https://www.hifisystemcomponents.com/interconnects-cables/libran-balanced-interconnect.html

Where products in a system have balanced ins and outs as in Richard's it probably makes sense to use them.

My reasoning is that balanced stages have a combination of inverting and non-inverting amplifiers, whether input or output, and often the inverting amplifier does a better job especially on common mode distortion.

In effect you have a combination of non-inverting stages in an unbalanced or single ended connection of otherwise balanced inputs and outputs. This in my findings isn't as good as using the inverting inputs and outputs.

For example, this is why the Proprius input is all-inverting such that both phases don't suffer common mode distortion.
There are only two things to stop you being a success in life and they're both called Google - Notions are not solutions!
Back to Top
Chris Firth View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 16 May 2013
Location: Rossendale, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 557
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Firth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2016 at 8:20am
Originally posted by Richardl60 Richardl60 wrote:


Findings:
The balanced terminated cables were more open, spacious, dynamic and more alive


I suspect that the interfacing itself, rather than the cabling is of greater significance.
Then there's the minor consideration of the signal being a good deal hotter, and therefore has an easier time of driving the cabling between the respective interfaces.

That's not to say the cabling doesn't make a difference - it might - but your comparison was between apples and oranges.


Edited by Chris Firth - 13 Sep 2016 at 9:10am
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.061 seconds.