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A trip to the dark side?

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Lucabeer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 Mar 2023 at 10:49am
In spite of caring for audio quality, I have to make a confession: I have always only owned ceramic (in the '90s...) and MM cartridges. I actually now have 4 MM cartridges, and I regularly rotate them thanks to the detachable headshell of my Technics 1210.

This doesn't mean I haven't ever listened to MC cartridges: I have listened to some in other people's systems. Denon, AT, even a very expensive Ortofon Anna. I have never actually found anything so special in them as to be tempted to own one, though. Some sounded very good, but not necessarily better than my MM cartridges. Some sounded slightly different (more "polite"?), some IMHO were for my ears indistinguishable from the MMs.

But of course, nothing would beat listening to one for hours in my system for a more thorough judgement, rather than some occasional listening in other people's systems.

Soooo, two big questions:

1) Should I really do it, or should I stick to owning high grade MMs? As I said, so far I haven't heard ANYTHING that made me scream "oooooh, this MC is so much better than any MM I have ever had!". Never. No outstanding detail, no incredible soundstaging, no ear-opening epiphany.

2) Since I own a Reflex M which completely satisfies me, would adding an Elevator provide what I need, or would adding a Reflex C/Accession C be so much better than Elevator + Reflex M?

Thanks for all opinions!


Edited by Lucabeer - 17 Mar 2023 at 10:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2023 at 11:18am
Epiphanies:

I have had two.

One with the Opus 3 Continuo with Hadcock 9" arm and Music Maker 3, which lasted only as long as the motor capacitors newness wore off (2 weeks).

The second with a now defunct Nottingham Analogue copy turntable using my speed controller and an AT MM cartridge, by now I cannot remember which.

And I don't know if it counts as a third epiphany, but my old Sonotone 9TA ceramic cartridge on a Technics into a high impedance flat gain stage, with a bit of RIAA tweakery (which became the back end of the Accessions).

Otherwise, all other things just sound "nice". Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucabeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2023 at 4:48pm
Well, Graham, I wouldn't have expected you to go for a heartfelt recommendation towards MC... and you didn't! LOL

I know your reasons for not liking MC. Myself, I more conservatively say that I haven't ever heard the loudly touted advantages. But again... I have only listened to a few MCs and not in the comfort of my home and with my records. So, the curiosity remains...

But I guess that you (and my rational self) are saying: don't bother, stick with MM unless you really feel you're missing something.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2023 at 8:24pm
I think everybody should at least give the dark side a try, if only to be able to pass on our experiences to others.

Let's face it, an MC is only going to result in financial loss (ruin, or at worse complete depression). It is the forbiden fruit, but hey, Eve reckoned it was good for food...

I ventured only as deep as the companies money would sensibly allow. If I had to use my own money I'd still be blissfully unaware.

So, after trying the Audio Technica OC? (it was either the 7 or the 9), and the Denon DL130, I decided I'd like something that sounded more musical to me.

I risked a Hana EL, and yes, it was more musical than the OC and the DL130, and it only cost around £300 at the time (now £409).

Perhaps it could have been impatience on my part - not tweaking every possible tweak out of my Technics SL12XX Mk3 (old type), but I think the 2M Black has the edge. And the Hana is back in its box.

What you can do, however, is borrow the Accession C from Kevin, but you'll have to cross to the dark side to buy an MC to use with it.

You might find it OK.

Evil Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucabeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2023 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by Graham Slee Graham Slee wrote:

If I had to use my own money I'd still be blissfully unaware.

You might find it OK.


I think this sums it all! LOL Thanks for the honesty, a rare thing to find nowadays!


Edited by Lucabeer - 17 Mar 2023 at 11:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CageyH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2023 at 6:47am
I also run some MM, MI and MC carts on my SL1200. I do like to change my cartridge from time to time as well. I have an Audio Technica AT20SLa currently fitted and it sounds superb. I don’t want to change it yet.

My other cartridges include:
Music Maker Classic
Technics EPC-U205 with Jico SAS stylus
AT150mlx
2 x Modified AT95 (they really do sound very good)
AT33PTG/II
Dynavector DV XX2

I have a couple of reasonable MC cartridges, but after the first ten to fifteen minutes, you can easily forget the subtle differences that an MC brings compared to a top class MM.

Then there is also the cost, and the lack of replaceable stylus. This makes listening to a lot of vinyl very expensive. Then there is also the minefield of finding an MC that you like. Then there is also the phono stage or SUT to consider.

If you are happy with MM, then stick with it. It is much cheaper and probably offers about 90% of what a good MC gives you. I am sure that there are some superb MCs out there, but the prices are scary for the really good ones.

As Graham said, if you want to borrow a MC phono stage, or the elevator, I have them available. Wink
I also have the Accession MM, if youn ever wanted to compare it to the Reflex M. The Reflex M is very good, but Graham has sprinkled a bit more magic dust in the Accession.



Edited by CageyH - 18 Mar 2023 at 6:53am
Kevin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucabeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2023 at 9:40am
Originally posted by CageyH CageyH wrote:

If you are happy with MM, then stick with it. It is much cheaper and probably offers about 90% of what a good MC gives you. I am sure that there are some superb MCs out there, but the prices are scary for the really good ones.


That's what leaves me puzzled: I have listened to the Ortofon Anna, which costs so much more than my Nagaoka MP-500 / AT 440-540ML / Ortofon 2M Bronze, and I have found NOTHING that was evidently superior to the MMs I use.

So yes, I guess I will stick with MM.
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