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2M Black / AT440MLa / MP500 setting and comparison
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Bags View Drop Down
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Points: 80 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bags Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Oct 2021 at 9:56pm
One benefit of using an mm is I can keep my Shibata for decent vinyl and use a cheap elliptical on charity shop vinyl without a lot of cartridge changing hassle.
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Points: 8998 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatmangolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 2021 at 9:28am
Good point Bags about stylus swapping. I checked the RPI and yes it has quadrupled since the Mid-eighties so the price of a G1042 has doubled in real terms. But that probably reflects the contraction in sales volume and I think it is still good value now.

Edited by Fatmangolf - 02 Oct 2021 at 9:33am
Jon

Open mind and ears whilst owning GSP Genera, Accession M, Accession MC, Elevator EXP, Solo ULDE, Proprius amps, Cusat50 cables, Lautus digital cable, Spatia cables and links, and a Majestic DAC.
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Points: 711 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Lucabeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2023 at 7:45pm
A little update? My AT 440 MLa has reached 500 hours, and still going great (still tracking the +18 dB torture track almost flawlessly: just brief bursts of sound breaking up in the left channel unless antiskate is perfectly tweaked!).

I have been experimenting a little bit with VTA, dialing it down a notch: 0 on my Technics 1210 Mk2 (but with the thinner 4 mm mat). If you still have a stock 6 mm mat (Technics changed the thickness in 2005), try 1.5 or 2. Result? More slam, meat, thickness and bass impact. Surface noise doesn't seem to be impacted. Is it better? Well, it's different. Just a matter of taste, worth experimenting if you ever thought that the 440 has a hint of brightness. I never did, so I will probably return to my usual 0.5: but if you are curious, do try. The difference in tonal balance is striking.


Edited by Lucabeer - 13 Jan 2023 at 7:22am
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Points: 1471 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote RichW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2023 at 8:38am
Good update Luca & shows the importance of VTA adjustment with line type styli.
Majestic/Enigma, Accession MM & MC.
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Points: 711 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lucabeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 7:32am
In spite of the previous update which seemed to suggest that the AT440MLa was still going strong at 500 hours, yesterday night I was listening to the Bernard Herrmann "Obsession" soundtrack (Decca 4 Phase, 1976) and I was noticing for the first time some IGD in the louder inner grooves of the record (which is cut rather hot, I must add). I put on the Nagaoka MP-500 for comparison, and no IGD.

So, I also re-tested the Nagaoka MP-500.

At the time of original testing, it had less than 100 hours, now it has 300 hours. Has something changed?

Well, yes!

1) Horizontal resonance frequency has slightly increased, so now it's in the same ideal range of the AT440MLa (8-9 Hz), and this is good. Probably the suspension loosened up a bit giving a touch more compliance?

2) Vertical resonance too has gone in the 8-9 Hz zone. I also seem to notice (but I don't remember if this was true when the stylus was relatively new) that there almost is no vertical resonance: compared to the AT 440 Mla, it bounces a LOT less in the vertical direction. It looks more dampened.

3) Tracking still excellent: the +18 dB torture track has a hint of "bee" in both channels, BUT there are no instances of sound breaking/tearing up in either channel. Never, not even with the antiskate set at completely wrong values. The AT440 MLa has less "bee", but brief bursts of sound breaking up unless antistake is maniacally set at 2.2.

One thing must be said: my AT440 MLa has a slightly skewed cantilever. It has a few degrees of bent outwards, nothing severe but it's there (it was the first "serious" cartridge I bought and personally installed 9 years ago, and due to lack of experience it has been treated a bit roughly at times). So, either due to this or due to having 500 hours of use, it might be less than optimal (although, still a wonderful performer).

I will make a definitive test next week: I have ordered a new VMN40ML stylus (the one supplied in the VM540ML cartridge) to put on my 440MLa, and I will test it for comparison.








Edited by Lucabeer - 13 Jan 2023 at 7:42am
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Graham Slee View Drop Down
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Points: 16298 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Graham Slee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 12:30pm
It's good to see this hands-on research from you Luca. I hope it gets noticed by plenty of MM users.

Stating the obvious, the grand finale is going to be at the end of the record, but I wonder if the casual turntable user really grasps that.

Looking at the circumference of the groove less than 100mm from the centre and the velocity, the harmonic frequencies that give the finale its character are "tight bends" for the stylus. Forget the "needle point", think about the cantilever, its resonance, its "primitive" suspension, and its interface with the generator coils. A phono cartridge is a miracle. The arm also!

And the record itself! The mechanical and chemical processes involved to make a stamper. Then for it to press a splurge of hot PVC and for the faithful groove to emerge. A thing of wonder.

The established maximum velocity of RIAA vinyl is 25cm/s, 800Hz to 2500Hz, which is +14dB, so I am not sure what the +18dB torture test at say 315Hz is intended for. This is where the mechanically agile brain is helpful to assist us choose a suitable cartridge and explain its setup.

And for those who can help members on that front, I am truly grateful.
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Points: 1525 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patientot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by Lucabeer Lucabeer wrote:


I will make a definitive test next week: I have ordered a new VMN40ML stylus (the one supplied in the VM540ML cartridge) to put on my 440MLa, and I will test it for comparison.



The new stylus should be better due to a lack of wear. Bear in mind it needs more tracking force than the old 440. I went through a bunch of the 440 and right now I'm using a VMN40ML stylus on an old AT150Ea body with custom loading.

I have it on good authority (microscope pictures to prove it) that the MR/ML styli have significant wear around the 500 hour mark and should not be used much beyond that. A big problem will be bottoming out on the grooves as the stylus gets too worn. Not everyone will hear it, but surface noise often increases as this happens.

One company in Japan uses a combination of microscope photos and a test record with a 15K test tone and measures distortion as the stylus wears. The 315Hz test won't tell you much about wear or higher frequency distortion on the record. It measures the low frequency tracking ability only.

If you look at the cartridge tests that the German magazine Lowbeats does, they are one of the only magazines measuring higher frequency distortion in addition to the low frequency tracking ability that others do. They use a 10K burst tone on a record for that. Some cartridges that do well on the 315Hz test won't do as well on the 10K test.
SL-1200 MK7 (modified) + Reflex M + PSU-1 used with AT150-40ML, AT VM95ML, Stanton 680mkII + Ogura, and Shure M35X cartridges.
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